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Old 12-26-2008, 08:11 PM   #1
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Default Just How 'Greek' Was The Byzantine Empire???

I originally posted this on the Maknews forum but thought it would interesting to post it again here in case anybody hasn't seen it especially as our modern Greek friends constantly brag about 'their' Byzantine heritage.


Just how 'Greek' was the Byzantine Empire?

Take a look at the ethnic origin of all its emperors and I'll let you all be the judge


Constantinian dynasty (306-363)

Constantine I (306-337) - ILLYRIAN, born in Nish, Serbia.
Constantine II (337-361) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Julian (361-363) - ILLYRIAN, son of Constantine I's Brother.

Non-dynastic (363-364)

Jovian (363-364) - ILLYRIAN, born in Belgrade, Serbia.

Valentinian-Theodosian dynasty (364-377)

Valentinian I (364-375) - ILLYRIAN, Born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Valens (375-378) - ILLYRIAN, Brother of Valentinian I, born in Vinkovci, Croatia.
Gratian (378-379) - ILLYRIAN, born in Sremska Mitrovica, Serbia.
Theodosius I (379-395) - SPANISH, born in Cauca, Spain.
Arcadius (395-408) - SPANISH, son of Theodosius I.
Theodosius II (408-450) - SPANISH, son of Arcadius.
Pulcheria (450-453) - SPANISH, daughter of Arcadius.
Marcian (450-457) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.

Leonid dynasty (457-518)

Leo I (457-474) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Leo II (474-474) - THRACIAN, Son of Zeno and grandson of Leo I.
Zeno (474-475) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Basiliscus (475-476) - ILLYRIAN, Born in the northern Balkans, exact village or town unknown.
Zeno (476-491) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Anastasius I (491-518) - ILLYRIAN, born in Durres, Albania.

Justinian dynasty (518-602)

Justin I (518-527) - ILLYRIAN, born in Nish, Serbia. (his real name was Istok).
Justinian I (527-565) - MACEDONIAN, born in Gradiste, Republic of Macedonia.
Justin II (565-578) - MACEDONIAN, nephew of Justinian I.
Tiberius II Constantine (578-582) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.
Maurice (582-602) - ARMENIAN, born in Arabissus, Turkey.

Non-dynastic (602-610)

Phocas (602-610) - THRACIAN, born in Thrace, exact village or town unknown.

Heraclian dynasty (610-711)

Heraclius (610641) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
Constantine III (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Heraklonas (641-641) - ARMENIAN, son of Heraclius, born in Lazica, Republic of Georgia.
Constans II (641668) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine III.
Mezezius (668669) - ARMENIAN, born in Malazgirt, Turkey.
Constantine IV (668685) - ARMENIAN, son of Constans II.
Justinian II (685695) - ARMENIAN, son of Constatine IV.
Leontios (695698) - KURDISH, born in Isauria, Turkey.
Tiberios III (698705) - GERMAN, born in Germany, exact village or town unknown.
Justinian II (705711) - ARMENIAN, restored.

Non-dynastic (711-717)

Philippikos Bardanes (711713) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Anastasios II (713715) - UNKNOWN, possibly Armenian.
Theodosios III (715717) - GERMAN, son of Tiberios III.

Isaurian dynasty (717-802)

Leo III (717741) - KURDISH, born in Maras, Turkey.
Constantine V Kopronymos (741-741) - KURDISH, son of Leo III.
Artabasdus (741743) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.
Constantine V Kopronymos (743775) - KURDISH, restored as emperor.
Leo IV (775780) - KURDISH/KHAZAR son of Constantine V and a Khazar mother.
Constantine VI (780797) - KURDISH/KHAZAR, son of Leo IV.
Irene (797802) - GREEK, born in Athens and ironically deposed and exiled to Lesbos.

Nikephoros dynasty (802-813)

Nikephoros I (802811) - ARAB, born in Selef, Turkey.
Staurakios (811-811) - ARAB, son of Nikephoros I.
Michael I Rangabe (811813) - UNKNOWN.

Non-dynastic (813-820)

Leo V (813820) - ARMENIAN, born in Armenia, exact village or town unknown.

Phrygian dynasty (820-867)

Michael II (820-829) - ARMENIAN, Born in Amorium, Turkey.
Theophilus (829-842) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael II and an Armenian mother.
Theodora (842-855) - ARMENIAN, born in Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Michael III (855-867) - ARMENIAN, son of Theophilus.

Macedonian dynasty (867-1056)

Basil I (867-886) - ARMENIAN, born in Macedonia, exact village or town unknown.
Leo VI (886-912) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael III.
Alexander (912-913) - ARMENIAN, son of Basil I.
Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (908-959) - ARMENIAN, son of Leo VI
Romanos I Lekapenos (920-944) - ARMENIAN, born in Lakape, Republic of Armenia.
Romanos II Porphyrogennetos (959-963) - ARMENIAN, son of Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos.
Nikephoros II Phokas (963-969) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
John I Tzimiskes (969-976) - ARMENIAN, born in Cappodocia, Turkey.
Basil II (976-1025) - ARMENIAN, exact village or town unknown.
Constantine VIII (1025-1028) - ARMENIAN, son of Romanos II Porphyrogennetos.
Zoe (1028-1050) - ARMENIAN, daugter of Constantine VIII.
Romanos III Argyros (1028-1034) - ARMENIAN, great grandson of Romanos I.
Michael IV (1034-1041) - PAPHLAGONIAN, born in Paphlagonia, Turkey.
Michael V (1041-1042) - PAPHLAGONIAN, nephew of Michael IV.
Theodora (1042-1042) - ARMENIAN, daughter of Constantine VIII.
Constantine IX (1042-1055) - UNKNOWN, possibly Armenian.
Theodora (1055-1056) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.

Non-dynastic (1056-1057)

Michael VI the General (10561057) - UNKNOWN.

Komnenid dynasty (1057-1059)

Isaac I Komnenos (10571059) - ARMENIAN, family originates from Paphlagonia, Turkey.

Doukid dynasty (1059-1081)

Constantine X (1059-1067) - PAPHLAGONIAN, born exact village or town unknown.
Michael VII (1067-1090) - PAPHLAGONIAN, son of Constantine X.
Romanos IV (1067-1071) - ARMENIAN, family originates from Cappodocia, Turkey.
Nikephoros III (1078-1081) - ITALIAN, descended from the Fabii, a leading patrician family from Rome.

Komnenid dynasty (1081-1185)

Alexios I Komnenos (1081-1118) - ARMENIAN, nephew of Isaac I Komnenos, family originates from Paphlagonia, Turkey.
John II Komnenos (1118-1143) - ARMENIAN, son of Alexios I Komnenos.
Manuel I Komnenos (1143-1180) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos I Komnenos.
Alexios II Komnenos (1180-1183) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel I Komnenos.
Andronikos I Michael VIII Palaiologos 1183-1185) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I.

Angelid dynasty (1185-1204)

Isaac II Angelos (1185-1195) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I Komnenos.
Alexios III Angelos (1195-1203) - ARMENIAN, grandson of Alexios I Komnenos.
Isaac II Angelos (1203-1205) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Alexios IV Angelos (1203-1204) - ARMENIAN, son of Isaac II Angelos.
Nikolaos Kanabos (1204-1205) - UNKNOWN.
Alexios V Doukas (1204-1205) - PAPHLAGONIAN, descended from the Ducas family who originate from Paphlagonia, Turkey.

Latin dynasty - Empire of Constantinople (1204-1237)

Baldwin I (120406) - FRENCH, born in Valenciennes, France.
Henry (12061217) - FRENCH, born in Valenciennes, France.
Peter (1217-1217) - FRENCH, born in Auxerre, France.
Yolande (12171219) - FRENCH, sister of Balwin I.
Robert (12211228) - FRENCH, born in Flanders, France.
Baldwin II Porphyrogennetos (12281261) - FRENCH, son of Yolande.
John (12311237) - FRENCH, born in Brienne, France.

Laskarid dynasty - Empire of Nicaea (1204-1261)

Constantine Laskaris (1204-1204) - UNKNOWN.
Theodore I Laskaris (11741222) - UNKNOWN.
John III Doukas Vatatzes (12221254) - ARMENIAN, cousin of Isaac II Angelos.
Theodore II Doukas Laskaris (12541258) - UNKNOWN.
John IV Doukas Laskaris (12581261) - UNKNOWN.

Palaiologan Dynasty (1259-1453)

Michael VIII Palaiologos (12591282) - ARMENIAN, descended from both the Armenian Ducas and Komnenos families.
Andronikos II Palaiologos the Elder (12821328) - ARMENIAN, son of Michael VIII Palaiologos.
Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger (13281341) - ARMENIAN , son of and Michael IX Palaiologos and princess Rita of Armenia.
John V Palaiologos (13411347) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos the Younger.
John VI Kantakouzenos (13471354) - GREEK, born in Morea.
John V Palaiologos (13541376) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
Andronikos IV Palaiologos (13761379) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (1376-1379) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (13791390) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VII Palaiologos (1390-1390) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos IV Palaiologos.
John V Palaiologos (13901391) - ARMENIAN, son of Andronikos III Palaiologos.
Manuel II Palaiologos (13911425) - ARMENIAN, son of John V Palaiologos.
John VII Palaiologos (13991402) - ARMENIAN, restored as emperor.
John VIII Palaiologos (14251448) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.
Constantine XI Palaiologos Dragases (14491453) - ARMENIAN, son of Manuel II Palaiologos.
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:19 PM   #2
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bravo, very good! Bring us more!!!
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:42 PM   #3
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My motivation for posting this again was due to a conversation with a modern 'Greek' that I had recently. Both his parent originated from the island of Symi just off the Turkish coast yet he had a tattoo of a ancient Spartan with the words 'Molon Labia" right across his back which he was very proud of. He was bragging about his great 'Greek' Byzantine heritage and how much he wanted to take Istanbul back from the Turks. He was also bitching about how the 'boxheads' were trying to steal his 'Macedonian' heritage from him as well.

Some of these modern Greeks are truelly a dilusional bunch, bereft of reality.
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Old 12-26-2008, 09:00 PM   #4
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Thanks for the list Napoleon, very comprehensive, however I think the Macedonian Dynasty needs to be looked at a little closer. There are other sources which speak of them as local Slavic-speakers from Macedonia or the Macedonia Theme. My personal belief is that they are a mix of Armenians and Slavic-speakers, as in these regions were settled thousands of Armenians by past East Roman Emperors, the same may be said of the heritage of Tsar Samuel.


Not that it makes a difference, but just a quick question and excuse my ignorance, are you Macedonian? I know you've been around a while so apologies if you are and for probing so late.
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Old 12-26-2008, 10:04 PM   #5
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Hi SOM

Although the founder of the Macedonian dynasty Basil was born in Macedonia, there is no doubt that he was of Armenian heritage. Despite this, you are correct, there would have been a lot of intermarriage going on with the local Macedonian population so that in all probability, they became more Macedonian then anything else in a very short time, hence the name 'Macedonian dynasty'.

As for your other question, yes I do have some Macedonian heritage although I'm ashamed to say I can't speak the language very well.
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Old 12-26-2008, 11:17 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon
Although the founder of the Macedonian dynasty Basil was born in Macedonia, there is no doubt that he was of Armenian heritage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_I#cite_note-0
Quote:
Basil was born to Armenian parents in 811 in the Byzantine theme of Macedonia (an administrative division corresponding to the area of Adrianople in Thrace).[1] While one source has claimed him to be of Slavic decent, such assumptions have been dismissed as fiction by the scholarly world.[2] The sole foundation of the Slavonic theory is that Arabic writers designate him as a Slav; this is explained by the Arabic view that all Macedonians were Slavs.[3] Basil's first language was Armenian and spoke Greek with a heavy accent.[4]
The Arabic citation is dismissed on account of the fact that Arabic writers tended to consider all Macedonians as Slavs. The 'Slav' terminology aside, why would that deem it inaccurate in a linguistic sense? The people and the language were present in Macedonia proper and the Macedonia Theme.

Quote:
Church and state supported one another and it was during Basil's reign as emperor that Photios created a genealogy tree that purported that Basil's ancestors were not mere peasants as everyone believed but descendants of the Arshakuni kings of Armenia.[6] Members of the Macedonian dynasty would gone to use this tree to claim their descendance from King Tiridates III of Armenia.
Apart from the created genealogy by Photios, whereby the peasant Basil is proclaimed as a descendant of Trdat III, the Armenian king that established Christianity as the Armenian state religion 580 years before his their time (which sounds similar to the story with Alexander 'Philhellene' and his quest for a glorious ancestry via the assistance of Herodotus), what other evidence is there of the Armenian origins of Basil? George Ostrogorski doubts both the native Macedonian origins of Basil and a connection to the Armenians, saying it "is also far from certain that he was of Armenian extraction, as is usually assumed.........."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon
As for your other question, yes I do have some Macedonian heritage although I'm ashamed to say I can't speak the language very well.
Nothing to be ashamed of, try and pick up a few words here and there when you can, even that is enough. I remember from time to time you would post some interesting information, but I don't recall much discussions, what else is your background? I thought it may have been part Serb because of the other avatar that you use?
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:44 AM   #7
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The avatar that I've chosen is of Napoleon Perdis...the Greek Austrlian women's make-up and cosmetics tycoon of Australia. I though it would be a bit of a laugh...check out the following;

YouTube - Napoleon Perdis on 9am with David and Kim (Part 1)

Last edited by Napoleon; 12-27-2008 at 01:02 AM.
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Old 12-27-2008, 12:48 AM   #8
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Hehe, I was talking about the one you use on the other forum mate, of Stefan Dusan?
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:06 AM   #9
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I didn't pick the avatar on Maknews...it was just given to me as I used somebody elses unknowingly and then they changed it to that one. Shit, I did not even know that was Dusan until you told me now...thanks

I have no Serb ancestory whatsoever.
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Old 12-27-2008, 01:49 AM   #10
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No probs mate. Now back to the topic at hand, what do you think about what I wrote with regard to Basil I? Can we find anything that provides an Armenian link other than the created lineage already mentioned? It would be good if we could narrow it down to the most accurate assessment.
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