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Old 03-31-2010, 02:49 PM   #31
makedonin
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Originally Posted by kate View Post
And yes thank you for adding the Kresna - Razlog one.
I don't see wikipedia as very valuable source.

By the way, I see you take pride into the Kreshna Razlog uprising. Here is some info about it, just in case you have missed it:

http://agema-makedonin.blogspot.com/...esna-1878.html

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You'll as well understand why I called it Ilindensko - Preobrajensko.
Preobrathensko or what ever you call it has no foundation or meaning, other than you think that Macedonians were changing into something like Bulgarians or the similar, which in your case might have been the case, if we buy your story being from Razlog, and me personally don't buy it!

Just out of that aspect, you don't deserve the web space to spread your stupidity!
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Last edited by makedonin; 03-31-2010 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:41 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Makemustara View Post
No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.

Yes, the Macedonians in Bulgaria have magically disappeared in the censuses after 1956. The same happened with the recognition of the Macedonian nation and language by your country. Your former communist dictator Todor Zhivkov with a stroke of a pen reversed that decision, along with the decision that there is no Macedonian minority in Bulgaria!!
You see we all thought that a group of people who identify with each other and with the state compose a nation, but we had Todor Zhivkov to tell us otherwise. He was the one deciding who are and who are not a nation( something like a ultimate god who produces ultimate blindness). And sadly his legacy is still nourished in Bulgaria.
Thatís why we should not be amazed by the disappearance of the Macedonians as a minority in Bulgaria. Itís simply because Todor Zhivkov decided that they donít exist.


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Because, that country sees no logic in the historical and cultural facts presented by that minority.
But I thought the minority doesnít exist? At least thatís what your country says!! How weak their arguments are, itís simply astonishing.

PS: I will set aside the illogical connection between ethnic minorities, their recognition and the ``historical and cultural facts`` that you tried to present.

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Where is the historical dispute on the question? One can be easily organised on neutral turf if there is will from the respective institutions.
A great idea. Plus we will think of some judging system and we will give points to the academics according to that judging system. The team with more points wins and the other team is going to be obligated to change itís history books. Sounds good?
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:39 PM   #33
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A great idea. Plus we will think of some judging system and we will give points to the academics according to that judging system. The team with more points wins and the other team is going to be obligated to change itís history books. Sounds good?
Bling, bling, bling.... Lets RUMBLE!!!

I bet my money on the Macedonian team!
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:44 PM   #34
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No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.
Try using a little logic, it goes a long way.

Last edited by El Bre; 03-31-2010 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:57 PM   #35
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Watchin Skopians trying to prove that they descend from Alexander the Great, that Tzar Samuil and the Miladinovi Brothers were Macedonian and so on...in front of world historians will be one hell of a show Of course I don't see the government of FYROM agreeing to send a delegation, but who knows...If 10th century french cartographers and chronologists are Bulgarian nationalists, too-we are busted.
After you banned @kate for just giving you another viewpoint you proved yourselves
I have no doubt that sooner or later a Macedonian minority will be recognised-these are the rules of the EU, we accepted them.
But even then your origins will be Bulgarian or Serbian, or Greek, or Albanian. Lets make a parallel closer to you - Australians and British.
PS: The name Kumanovo, have to remind you of a tribe that...I leave it to your capable hands.
Adios ninas !
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Old 03-31-2010, 07:18 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Makemustara View Post
Watchin Skopians trying to prove that they descend from Alexander the Great, that Tzar Samuil and the Miladinovi Brothers were Macedonian and so on...in front of world historians will be one hell of a show Of course I don't see the government of FYROM agreeing to send a delegation, but who knows...If 10th century french cartographers and chronologists are Bulgarian nationalists, too-we are busted.
After you banned @kate for just giving you another viewpoint you proved yourselves
I have no doubt that sooner or later a Macedonian minority will be recognised-these are the rules of the EU, we accepted them.
But even then your origins will be Bulgarian or Serbian, or Greek, or Albanian. Lets make a parallel closer to you - Australians and British.
PS: The name Kumanovo, have to remind you of a tribe that...I leave it to your capable hands.
Adios ninas !
Hahahahah i love it When slime like you get bent over with facts and when you realise you loose and feel like a wanker, You turn psychotic. Te zezi pichka eden.

Good work MTO another one bites the dust. When people like MakemuseEba i mean Makemustara Rant, you know you won. Truth is agony for these type of people :rmacedonia
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makemustara View Post
Watchin Skopians trying to prove that they descend from Alexander the Great, that Tzar Samuil and the Miladinovi Brothers were Macedonian and so on...in front of world historians will be one hell of a show Of course I don't see the government of FYROM agreeing to send a delegation, but who knows...If 10th century french cartographers and chronologists are Bulgarian nationalists, too-we are busted.
After you banned @kate for just giving you another viewpoint you proved yourselves
I have no doubt that sooner or later a Macedonian minority will be recognised-these are the rules of the EU, we accepted them.
But even then your origins will be Bulgarian or Serbian, or Greek, or Albanian. Lets make a parallel closer to you - Australians and British.
PS: The name Kumanovo, have to remind you of a tribe that...I leave it to your capable hands.
Adios ninas !
You scumbag have hightlighted in red exactly what you Vulgarians are on about on this forum, eba si majkata bugarska kopile kuchesko
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:51 PM   #38
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You scumbag have hightlighted in red exactly what you Vulgarians are on about on this forum, eba si majkata bugarska kopile kuchesko
arno rece sestro. za ovie samo taka treba. ne se razbrani ovie kleti kuchina mameto nivno.
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Old 03-31-2010, 10:28 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Makemustara View Post
[Ouch, I didn't mean to brush you for the FYROM stuff, it doesn't really bother me, Macedonia can be Macedonia...
What ever shit talker. Are you finished crying you little Sofia Tartar bitch? So it doesn't really bother you, Macedonia can be Macedonia again. for how much longer. I supose once that injection wears off.
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Old 07-21-2010, 01:39 PM   #40
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http://lgi.osi.hu/ethnic/relations/1/ivanov.html

The Macedonian minority in Bulgaria on the difficult way for self-determination

by Kiril Ivanov [email protected]

The Macedonian self-consciousness has its roots in the far past. The struggle for recognition of the Macedonian minority has never stopped. Today it is done in a contemporary democratic way with peaceful means. Preposition for this peaceful process are the numerous international contracts and agreements, declarations and framework conventions for the rights of minorities.

The specific about the Macedonian minority is that they live compactly in Pirin Macedonia and in the country there are many Macedonian refugees from Pirin and Aegean Macedonia.

At the moment exist the following Macedonian organisations: United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden - Party for Economic Development and Integration of the Population, The Traditional Macedonian Organisation, Bulgarian-Macedonian Association, Cultural Sport Association Shrine, Christian Brothership Saint Ilia and others.

The United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden - Party for Economic Development and Integration of the Population is not on minority basis and will defend the rest minorities in Pirin Macedonia and Bulgaria: pomaks, turks, jews, armenians and others. There are many people among the Macedonian intellectuals who are afraid of economic, political and physical repression and can not manifest themselves. The Macedonian minority can not gain its rights because the Bulgarian government does not recognise its real existence. This is the sequence of the long years nationalist position of the Bulgarian Communist Party (Bulgarian Socialist Party), of the now ruling Union of the Democratic Forces and other parties and organisations - their partners. In order to satisfy its own cultural needs the Macedonian minority must look for help from the international right protecting organisations, the European Union, the United Nations. This really existing minority needs real moral and material support for the country men living in the different parts of the world - Europe, America, Canada, Australia.

In order to solve the problems of the Macedonian minority is needed in near and future plan to do the following:

1. The application of the framework convention in Bulgaria to be related to the Macedonian minority too.

2. Seeking and finding means for real and material support for the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria.

3. Creation of active economic programme in Pirin Macedonia.

4. Giving collective rights to the Macedonian minority. 5. Opening of Macedonian consulate in Blagoevgrad.

6. Opening of Macedonian Cultural Centres in Blagoevgrad, Sandanski, Petrich, Razlog, Gotse Delchev.

7. Creation of Macedonian theatre in Blagoevgrad.

8. Creation of cultural relations between the cultural houses in Pirin Macedonia and the Republic of Macedonia, between the cultural enlightenment and church organisations in Aegean Macedonia, Europe, America, Canada, Australia.

9. Opening of Macedonian book shops in Sofia, Plovdiv and the other bigger towns in Bulgaria and Pirin Macedonia.

10. Publishing books, magazines and newspapers in Macedonian language.

11. Giving license to the Radio-Television Centres to broadcast programmes in Macedonian language.

12. Implementation of Macedonian language at schools.

13. In the field of religion to be delivered the Bible and the Koran in Macedonian language.

14. Building memorial dedicated to the heroes died for the freedom of Macedonia.

15. Access to the archives of the Bulgarian Communist Party (Bulgarian Socialist Party) and State Security during the communist rule in Bulgaria.

16. Opening of the Macedonian records in Bulgaria.

17. Returning of the confiscated materials by the State Security upon arrest of members of the United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden.

18. To be stopped the persecution of people with Macedonian self-consciousness.

19. To be forced the economic and transport relations with the Republic of Macedonia, opening of the cross border link Strumyani-Berovo; railroad corridor Blagoevgrad-Skopie.

20. Stimulation and technical prerequisites for the spiritual unification of the Macedonians from Pirin, Vardar and Aegean region.

21. The expelled Macedonians from Aegean Macedonia to get the right to return back home.

I. With the application of the framework convention in Bulgaria will be given the possibility the Macedonian minority to demonstrate itself free and legitimate and with registration of all Macedonian organisations and associations. When the Bulgarian laws are harmonised with the European, then the Macedonian minority will get its rights. The starvation, plight generated by the unemployment push the minority to despair, indifference towards the problems of their ethnic entity. This causes depersonalization and cutting from the traditions inhereted from the grandparents through songs, dances, habits. The Macedonian intelligentsia is compelled to self- identify itself as Macedonian bulgarians in order not to lose jobs and family subsistence. At the same time they are mentally suffering because they can not determine themselves such as they feel.

Giving collective rights to the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria greatly depends on external factors: European Union, United Nations, Macedonian, diplomatic activity and Macedonian Diaspora.

The opening of Macedonian consulate in Blagoevgrad will solve many problems and technical-economical difficulties of the Macedonians in Pirin Macedonia.

The creation of Macedonian cultural houses in the towns of Pirin Macedonia will allow our children to continue the traditions of the wonderful authentic Macedonian folklore. The availability of Macedonian theatre and book shops will allow the Macedonian intelligentsia to get acquainted directly with the achievements of the country men in the field of art, culture and literature. The publishing of Macedonian books, magazines and newspapers will satisfy the interests of the Macedonian minority in Bulgaria.

II. The publishing of a peoples newspaper in Macedonian language that corresponds to the interests of the Macedonian minority is long expected and wished. In it everybody will find something about himself. It is needed in order to form Macedonian self-consciousness of the people and to free the ethnic affiliation in order to live in peace and friendship with all minorities, ethnoses and religious societies in Pirin Macedonia and Bulgaria. The newspaper must tell the people the necessity of peaceful and tolerant development and for overcoming the differences between people from the stand point of protecting the rights of every man no matter his religious or ethnic affiliation. The contents of the newspaper will be dedicated to the life and culture of the Macedonian minority, to the social, political activity and will mark way in the future for higher living standard. With the whole editing the newspaper, with cultural respect should compete with the numerous newspapers, published in Bulgaria and to raise the level of the Macedonian language, preserved in the Macedonian minority.

III. In the area of electronic media, we the Macedonians are surrounded by many local, private and state Radio Television Centres that influence non stop in political and historical aspect with pro-bulgarian facts and we do not want abolition of the ethnic self-personality and self-consciousness. Needed is protection on the same level, but we are not given such a possibility although the international lawful documents and the framework convention about the minorities.

IV. Not on the last place must be pointed the field of the religions in Macedonia - eastern orthodox and muslim. Our country men have strong faith and in the field of religious traditions must gain real rights and to hear we are on different ways, because of the territorial division of Macedonia. The religious holidays are celebrated with 14 days difference. It is necessary to standardise the holidays in order to be heard our preys by God and from there the hopes of for spiritual unification of the Macedonians are greater.

The way of the Macedonian self-determination has always been long and full of changes but the fate of our Macedonia is in our hands and we believe in its happy future.

IV. The economic and social policy is inseparable part of the activity of the United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden-PIRIN. This is in fact their purpose for increasing the life standard of the Macedonian population in the region of Pirin. With this aim we insist on decisive measures in this direction and more precisely:

- All water resources in Pirin Macedonia should not be deviated to other regions in order to ensure better life of population.

- The Bulgarian government to ensure preferences for foreign investment in agriculture, industry and tourism which will decrease the unemployment in Pirin Macedonia.

- To be relieved the commercial exchange between the Balkan countries and to be established large scale cooperation in the field of water supply, energetics, agriculture, tourism, science, education, sport and others.

- To be ensured tax relieves for firms, organisations and private personalities, finding new jobs for unemployed and disabled people.

For the realisation of the programme of the United Macedonian Organisation Ilinden-Pirin is necessary to be democratised the social life in Bulgaria in the direction of recognition the rights of minorities according to the international agreements for protection of human rights.
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