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Old 02-22-2013, 02:14 AM   #31
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Too bad for him the ancient greeks died off 2000 years ago. What have the "modern greeks" done?

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Old 02-22-2013, 02:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by momce View Post
Too bad for him the ancient greeks died off 2000 years ago. What have the "modern greeks" done?
They play the role of victim very well and never admit a wrong. Here it is again from the article I posted on page 3.

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In general, the West ignores the Greeks, usually treating their country like a colony. When the Greeks won the first victory in WWII, the Western allies quickly forgot it. And after the war ended, Greece got practically nothing from the Germans who leveled Greece and murdered tens of thousands of Greeks.

Then the American-triggered financial meltdown of 2008 struck. This time rapacious moneylenders joined the West's contempt for Greece and ignited another occupation of the country.

It is quite remarkable that modern greeks just can't say "Hey, we [email protected]#ked up and there's no one else to blame but ourselves." This victim role sh!t they play is cowardly. And typical for these malakas to mix in "achievements" of their pretended ancestors as if some torch was ever passed on to a bunch of Albanians who say "Tsees" instead of "Cheese"
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:30 AM   #33
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Yes apparently they are finding artifacts all over the place now too during this economic mess. I tell yah its all staged. Not surprising for a country that has always been a third world dung hole most of its existence. They're a real smug bunch, talk alot do nothing, accomplish less then nothing then engage in rages and fits against other people the common ghosts etc. Professionally, most people wouldnt go near greece with a ten foot pole. Noncompliance across the board.

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Old 05-16-2013, 09:01 AM   #34
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The following article gives a very clear and concise picture of what modern Greece and modern Greeks are all about.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/andrea...b_3266524.html

Why I Left Greece
Andreas Souvaliotis.
Social Entrepreneur

On an early morning bike ride this week I saw a grumpy-looking older man walk out of his house, reach into his pocket, pull out an empty pack of cigarettes and toss it out onto the street.

The extra endorphins that were flowing through my body at that moment helped quickly replace my initial anger with a whole bunch of reflection. That grumpy-looking man's act felt so uncomfortably familiar. It reminded me of all the disillusionment I used to feel as a dreamy teenager growing up in a very selfish, immature, unbalanced and fundamentally undemocratic society. It reminded me of why I chose to leave Greece and move to Canada thirty years ago.

Back when I was a kid my birth country wasn't the land of debt defaults and massive layoffs, but it was already a very strange and extremely individualistic society. Modern Greeks have a unique reputation for their passion, pride, resourcefulness and entrepreneurialism; but they've also been notorious for their intense self-righteousness and their perpetual inability to hold themselves accountable. In the country I grew up in, you were often laughed at if you were courteous to others, if you obeyed all the traffic rules or if you paid your taxes. You had no chance of success if you didn't know how to cheat and how to look after yourself first. There was no sense of common good -- in fact, the "what if everyone else did this" line hardly made any sense to most of my compatriots.

Fast-forward three decades and now that society is in a full blown crisis -- affecting not just them but, in many indirect ways, the rest of us as well. Their "us first" mentality; their superficial and twisted interpretation of democracy; their Teflon pride and intense desire to blame anyone but themselves -- it's all caught up to them and they're having an impossibly difficult time understanding why and how it all happened. A majority of Greeks are still asking their government to back away from the painful austerity measures, despite knowing that it would put their nation on an express route to a disorderly bankruptcy. The pain and humiliation of the past few years don't seem to have had an effect on their national mentality yet -- they still think and behave as if they deserve more, as if their well being does not depend on anyone or anything else around them...

Even in their happier days, when everything seemed to be going their way and they had become a nation of experts at living beyond their means, the citizens of Greece weren't necessarily any happier than the rest of us. Finding a way to toss your pack of cigarettes onto the street, where the rest of us will have to pick it up doesn't necessarily make life any easier for you -- because in that kind of world you're probably also having to worry about your neighbors dumping their garbage on your lawn. Having to stay one step ahead of the system and one trick ahead of the next guy might be stimulating but it doesn't actually make life any more rewarding. That grumpy-looking man this week didn't appear to be all that happy, even though he was beating the system.

And, most ironically or perhaps appropriately, that grumpy-looking man came out of a house in Toronto's Greektown.



(These are the comments from the Huffington post comment section.Typical malakas in action. )


Pelion
02:52 AM on 05/15/2013
The concept of loyalty to the land of your birth is clearly foreign to you. Presumably as Greeks have "no sense of common good", you are a model citizen of your adopted land, if not the world. To quote Churchill, lauding the role Greece played during the Second World War: "Hence we will not say that Greeks fight like heroes, but that heroes fight like Greeks!" Savaging your countrymen from your safe and comfortable haven is an act of cowardice.


Nectorious
22 hours ago (11:06 AM)
Your quote of Churchill's reflection on how Greeks fought in a war that took place over 70 years ago works to validate the author's point of "teflon pride." Greeks like to live in past glories and conveniently forget to constructively criticize their own actions while overly criticizing the actions of others. Perhaps this is why Greeks who live abroad, such as myself, are better able to criticize Greece through honest eyes, rather than live behind a mentality built on selfishness and victimization.


istanbulite
06:27 PM on 05/13/2013
AS, very brave of you to write this very personal article. You didn't mention the surveys in Greece that document that a large % of Greeks believe that Germans are responsible for their debt crisis. They believe that Germans set it up so that they could end up owning Greece. It is confusing to me how anyone else can be responsible for signing on the dotta line of the loans that have bankrupted Greece.


european view
02:16 AM on 05/14/2013
A typical Turk (istanbulite) who finds a chance to attack Greece.Turkey needs at least three decades to cathch up with the standard of living and environment in Greece.Plus 2/3 of turkish population starve.


muysuave41
Spanish Olive Oil Producer
04:56 AM on 05/14/2013
Your summation about Turkey is a bit dated.


istanbulite
05:05 AM on 05/14/2013
#1 I am not a Turk and no one is starving here. Food is abundant. #2 The standard of living in Greece is fake and dependant on the EU and the loans. #3 Turkey has had a functional democracy much longer than Greece can document.#4 Turkey has a huge manufacturing sector and its sustains the economy. Greece has practically no manufacturing at all and unemployment is out of the roof. Best to check you facts next time.


asgorgolis
05:27 PM on 05/13/2013
Excellent article! 30 years of learning to be a Canadian who knows better to tell the Greeks they don't know anything! That's a very original thought! That's about as original as when Greeks talk about their 3,000 year old civilization! Put a little substance in your article.

Greece is not Canada and it's not Germany; and I prefer it that way. I'm so sorry to hear you were laughed at for being courteous or polite. Greek people are wonderul and all these stereotypes that you put on full display only show your complete and utter ignorance. If it's not bad enough we Greeks have to defend ourselves from negative stereotypes from Germany; now we have to hear it from a former Greek? I would love to read one of your first person accounts of Black People, Mexicans, or Asians. I imagine it has the same narrow minded observations that you reserve for the Greeks.

I don't have to apologize for being Greek. As far as I'm concerned, you're Canadian now. Come to Greece when you can, vacation, enjoy the rich culture, wonderful climate, pristine beaches, and spend a few dollars like you would on a trip to Florida or Cancun, and then GO BACK to Canada. Nobody misses you here in Greece. Even if Greece improved to your new "Canadian Standard of Living", would you move back to Greece? I'm almost 100% certain you would not; so why do you feel the need to "tell it like it is?"


Alaturka
09:33 PM on 05/13/2013
You are right, how un-Greek of him to show some introspection.


harrystocratic
05:13 PM on 05/13/2013
The Greeks are a nation immersed in mythological nationalism...

Modern Greeks have neither any bloodline to ancient Greeks nor any cultural similarity.,
They have as much resemblance to ancient Gtreeks as a pig to a deer...

However,a totalitrarian culture of " Hellenism " is imposed on them & became their ethnic identity...

They regard themselves as the supreme nation & all other nations as inferior to them...

It is that spirit which led to overborrowing & going bankrupt.

Their nationakl mentality was & still is..
" We do not owe the world ,the world owes us plenty "...

An American can understand the Greek mythologiocal nationalist character by watching the greek communities in USA.

They live in a time - capsule,with posters pf ancient statutes thery only speek Greek among themselves & generally they act a a not-americanised greek colony in USA...

Pretty much as in the movie .." My big fat Greek wedding "...



NissosIkaria
03:41 PM on 05/13/2013
Dear Mr. Souvaliotis,
I was dismayed to read your post today. Greece was devastated during and after the Second World War. Unlike Germany it was not rebuilt under the Marshall Plan. The post-war generation became hard scrabble for a reason. They were starving after the war and no one in the international community or within their own government cared. Over the past decade Greek baby boomers were fed a steady flow of advertising from the banks encouraging them to take out frivolous loans. Young Greeks were actively seduced by the notion of being European and adopting a standard of living beyond their means thereby bolstering economies to the north. The majority of Greeks are not frivolous, they are hard working and well educated. They have inherited a dysfunctional infrastructure that they do not have the political or economic power to change.
I can well imagine that you have had cause to be disgruntled by bureaucrats and perhaps by your neighbours. As the widow of a Greek I too have had my share of difficulties, however, I have also met youth who have given me hope for the country.
There is no shortage of intelligence and talent in Greece. Use your imagination and resources, your bully pulpit, to help out, as individuals we can begin to turn things around, if not economically, at least intellectually. It is a more productive investment of your time than slandering an entire culture based on the garbage throwing habits of one old man.

Konstantine
08:29 PM on 05/13/2013
Thanks for the grown-up message. The article reads like an extremely immature rant written by a teenager on a tantrum. It is also incredibly naive to blame the entire crisis of the last 5 years on the citizens of Gr. acting out "individualistically" and "looking out for themselves", completely ignoring crucial international economic and political factors.
While there is plenty of sensible criticism to be made, this particular article is stunningly juvenile.

Alaturka
09:43 PM on 05/13/2013
Greece was one of the largest recipients of Marshall Plan aid per capita.

Mon Ami
01:52 PM on 05/13/2013
This is a useful perspective. This type of piece, written in first-person perspective, helps to create ease in understanding of other cultures. It is particularly timely now. Thank you.


european view
06:30 PM on 05/13/2013
You are mislead,believe me.Mr.Souvaliotis has no knowledge of 2013 Greek-European reality whatsoever.He condemns Greek people for fighting the austerity imposed on them!Greek people pay 1.80 euros (2.20 dollars for a litre of petrol).That means that a gallon in Greece costs 8.80 dollars!How would american people react to that?


Alaturka
11:21 PM on 05/13/2013
Right next door, in Turkey, gas is even more expensive. For decades it's been the most expensive on the planet. How do people react there you think?


Traks101
11:50 PM on 05/13/2013
You should look beyond your nose and the minute hand on you watch. The present situation is an accumulation from decades of bad habits and bad attitudes.



Oh modern grks you never cease to amaze us. Always the victim with a great and glorious past. Nothing is ever your fault and everyone is always out to get you lol.
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:14 AM   #35
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A reasonable overview.
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Old 05-16-2013, 06:02 PM   #36
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TM
Great piece, a modern day example of an outsiders view of what's wrong with Greeks - and rather than learn something from it they go on their merry way living in denial and blaming everyone else. Courageous article on the individuals behalf!
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:58 PM   #37
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that is in a nutshell the malakas are so fucked up in their brain that they are conditioned to accept that macedonia is in their psyche they aren't willing to compromise the line is in the sand.Calling them morons would be too nice.You can't have a normal dialogue with them.
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Old 09-05-2013, 07:48 AM   #38
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Well whose up for another round of typical malakas

Here's a malaka who should be on his knees begging German voters to bail out his bankrupt country. Instead he points a finger at German businesses blaming them instead of looking in the mirror and blaming that malaka.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/ger...uture-eurozone



Give Greece a break: what politicians need to tell German voters

Throwing arbitary figures around undermines the prospect for a much-needed debate about the future of the eurozone

One of the most hotly debated issues in Germany in the runup to the elections is the future of Greece. But, unfortunately, what we mostly hear is the terrible noise of populism and there are hardly any voices of reason.

People have started throwing numbers around in the most irresponsible and incomprehensible fashion, without any serious evidence to support their claims: "Greece will need 10bn more euros," says incumbent finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble; "Greece's financing needs are 77bn," responds Carsten Schneider, the opposition Social Democrat party's spokesman on budget issues; "Greece should leave the eurozone and have its debt erased," say the eurosceptics of Alternative für Deutschland (AfD). And so on …


The truth is, of course, that all these numbers and claims are arbitrary. Therefore, they undermine the prospects for a well-informed public debate on the future of the eurozone periphery – a debate that German voters ought to have before they cast their vote in a few days time. The reality is that Greece has beaten its budget implementation targets for 2012. Data for the first seven months of 2013 support the projection that the country will do better than expected once again this year, finally reaching the seminal target of primary surplus, ie a budget surplus, excluding payments for servicing old debts.


The manufacturing PMI index for August reached a 44 month high, and Markit Economics says that it is not unlikely that recovery will get under way before the end of this year, earlier than anticipated. Early recovery means higher tax revenues, lower recapitalisation needs for the country's banks and increased confidence, which will fuel interest from investors for Greece's privatisation projects. In other words, less, if any, new money from the eurozone stability mechanisms.
Protests against government austerity measures outside the Greek parliament. Photograph: KeystoneUSA-ZUMA/Rex Features

Other indicators, namely unemployment, which stands at a jaw-dropping 27.6%, and economic sentiment, which fell for a fourth consecutive month in August, do not leave much room for optimism. In other words, Greece could go either way. In light of these conflicting signs, the most responsible thing for German leaders would be to put their calculators back in their bags and stop mentioning numbers. Strangely enough, the most sober German view on the future of Greece comes from Klaus Regling, the managing director of the Luxembourg-based European Stability Mechanism: "Nobody knows how the world economy will look, how Europe will be doing or how important neighbours for Greece, like Turkey, will be doing in 10 months' time," he said, in a recent interview. He questioned the "quality" of all those numbers we hear, arguing that they are "very tentative".


Hence, instead of trying to look through the crystal ball, German politicians should try to inform their voters of their vision for Europe, and Germany's place within it. On the rare occasions that they do that, they project the completely misplaced stereotype that Germany's participation in the support programmes for the European periphery was a "philanthropic" operation. Well, it wasn't. Not only has Germany not lost a cent from the loans it has provided to Greece, and other troubled countries in the periphery, but the emergency facilities that were created in 2010 have also ensured that the global financial system did not suffer a cataclysmic collapse, following a Greek bankruptcy domino.

Greece would stand to lose as much as Germany after such a dramatic development. After all, Germany has probably gained more from the creation of the eurozone, and the record low interest rates after the outbreak of the crisis, than any other member state of the union.

Finally, since it always takes two to tango, German taxpayers should be reminded that German companies are involved in many of the economic scandals that brought the Greek state on the edge of the cliff.


What is even more worrying is that, once again, Greek people hear mainstream German politicians issuing threats and ultimatums. "Greece won't get a cent without reforms," said chancellor Angela Merkel. Such statements really stink of populism.

If the view of a Greek is not convincing enough, let me refer to independent assessments: both Regling and the Finnish vice-president of the European Commission, Olli Rehn, have repeatedly said Greece has achieved the largest fiscal adjustment of any country in history (more than 12% of GDP in the past three years). The sum total of austerity measures required to achieve this adjustment exceeded €49bn (£41bn), or 22.6% of Greece's GDP, in just two years!

Progress in structural reforms has also been impressive: the country earned first place on responsiveness to recommendations in the latest Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) Going for Growth report. Moreover, Greece improved its global ranking by a staggering 22 places in the 2013 Doing Business report, published by the World Bank.



Finally, according to the European commission and the OECD, Greece consistently records the highest number of hours worked by full-time employers in Europe and the developed world and far more than Germany.


In short, Greece started from a very low point and an extremely precarious position following grave mistakes that led to effective default, but it has come a long way since 2010. Greek people have made more efforts and paid a heavier price than all the other eurozone countries combined. No stone has been left unturned: the pension system, healthcare, labour market, public administration – everything changed in these years, amid wartime-like economic depression and draconian cuts. This violent adjustment took its toll on Greek society. Greece suffered from the largest GDP contraction in its peacetime history, the highest-ever levels of unemployment and skyrocketing poverty levels. So, please, give us a break.

If there is one thing political leaders should remind German voters is there are limits to how much you can impose on a democratic society before it implodes into something really ugly.


And this is a great great comment someone left in the comments section below the article:



Brigitte Bernadotte
05 September 2013 1:27pm

Well, the article is maybe one of the most arrogant opinions ever published here, and a proof of the Greek imperialism of our times. Let us just check the facts:
Greece swindled itself into the euro zone with faked numbers, an act against all people in the euro zone.
It remained in it despite it was neither good for Greece nor for the other countries; on the contrary it damaged Greece (Stockholm syndrome?), all EZ countries and indeed the world economy.
It has enough private wealth to solve all its, but is either unable or unwillingly to properly tax its people (like the ship owners) and instead believes the Germans are supposed to pay their bills (and the Dutch, Finnish etc etc).
All of their life a huge majority of Greeks voted for corrupt parties bringing the country to where it was years ago, and still is.
They also brought Cyprus (100% in Asia) into the EU (and the euro zone) with political blackmail, threatening to block EU’s eastern expansion.
The euro was forced on Germany (Kohl: “I acted like a dictator”) in exchange for reunification.
And while the German parliament (=of the country on which the euro was forced) voted with huge majorities for giving a country which lied itself into EMU gargantuan sums of money, the Greeks had nothing better to do to start a racist, incredible disgusting Nazi spree.
And everyone knows every billion thrown into this black hole is lost, what will soon become obvious.

I am neither willing to give Greece anything nor to live with it in any kind of community. I do not care for the future of Greece or an EU/Euro project which never asked me for my support. Whether Greece is paradise on Earth or hell – it doesn’t matter to me as long as those people cannot mess up my life any more, and dominate the political agenda of countries with other problems.

I will vote AfD.
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