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Old 01-29-2017, 08:40 PM   #31
Gocka
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haha When all else fails go selski.

I actually think I will make it my thing from now on to greet our resident plate smasher with the very finest the Macedonian selski dialect has to offer. No more debates, no more fake intellectualism, just straight down to the point.

Creative suggestions are welcome

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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
...lol

Don't worry about our plate smashing friends feigned ignorance...he's a paid agent going about his dirty business of denial...
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Old 01-30-2017, 04:20 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
The above quote is from Mina News and I couldn't confirm anything close to this number (1000 executions). Wikipedia (for instance) says 12 officers were shot by Yugoslavia Secret Police. The dates are not clear but this is probably after November 20, 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...onia#Aftermath

Edit: This may be related
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1945)

==
I really can't understand how you could relate this to being 'pro-Bulgarian'

This is a reminder of Bulgarian occupying activities in RM during WWII:
https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F...tasa,_1943.jpg
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Old 01-30-2017, 11:15 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis
I donít find it so explosive or impressive. Itís hard to say if this is a trick, or if there was really such a discussion or plan in the Greek political scenery, one would have to search in the Greek press of the time.
In the report it says Greece didn't want to approach Tito, so I doubt you will find anything in the Greek press given that it seems to be a clandestine request.
Quote:
The above quote is from Mina News and I couldn't confirm anything close to this number (1000 executions). Wikipedia (for instance) says 12 officers were shot by Yugoslavia Secret Police. The dates are not clear but this is probably after November 20, 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...onia#Aftermath

Edit: This may be related
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1945)

==
The last link may be related, but many of the references used in the English article are either Greek, Bulgar and Serb, so it is only one (anti-Macedonian) perspective. Macedonians recall that period differently, particularly being branded as "Bulgarian" sympathisers simply for rejecting Yugoslav/Serbian hegemony or for declaring their intention to continue the fight in southern Macedonia rather than northern Serbia.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:29 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
The last link may be related, but many of the references used in the English article are either Greek, Bulgar and Serb, so it is only one (anti-Macedonian) perspective. Macedonians recall that period differently, particularly being branded as "Bulgarian" sympathisers simply for rejecting Yugoslav/Serbian hegemony or for declaring their intention to continue the fight in southern Macedonia rather than northern Serbia.
You're spot on SoM. The last link was completely saturated in anti-Macedonian dribble. Here's the Macedonia perspective of those events:

Macedonian Bloody Christmas (1945) - mass murder of more than 1,200 Macedonians who disagreed with the new Yugoslav politics.
January 7, 1945, the first day of Christmas - As a result of a list that was composed by Kolishevski in Vardar Macedonia, 1,200 people were killed without a trial or judgment. On December 26, 1944, a few days before Christmas 1945, several thousand soldiers and more than 100 officers rebelled at the barracks in Skopje and Shtip. They refused to comply with newly arrived order from Belgrade to leave for the front to protect Serbia and, instead, declared their desire for the Macedonian army to focus on Solun and the freedom of their compatriots from Aegean Macedonia. Tito's representatives, Svetomir Vukmanovich - Tempo, Lazar Kolishevski and General Mihailo Apostolski decided that now was the time for a showdown with "sympathisers of the Bulgarian occupier." They gathered around them the Serbian officers and told them that the mutineers were "bugarashi", "Vanchomihajlovisti", "VMRO-ists" and "fascists". General Apostolski invited the rebellious officers at the Officers Club in Skopje "to discuss the issue." Once there, the officers were immediately disarmed, arrested and imprisoned in the dungeons of the old Turkish Fortress. After a short interrogation, led personally by Tempo, 70 officers were shot in just a few hours. Just before being shot, Tempo would say to each: "So you want Solun?, here it is ...".

The soldiers, who by now had already retired to their barracks, sensed that something was happening with their officers and so around 1000 of them made their way back towards the center of Skopje. On arrival they were met by well barricaded Serbian partisans who immediately opened automatic fire on them, showing no mercy. About 100 dead are strewn in the square while more than 900 were arrested and imprisoned in the Skopje Fortress. They are kept there for over a month without bread, water and blankets. Almost all die of hunger and exposure to the cold. On the 6th, approaching the 7th, January 1945 began mass extermination of city mayors, priests, teachers and ordinary villagers throughout Macedonia. They were labelled "bugarashi" and "supporters of the Bulgarian fascist occupiers", without a trial or conviction. The hastily enacted law on "Protection of the Macedonian honour" was used to justify the purges.
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:19 PM   #35
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Around 1953, my grandfather did 9 months jail from a possible 3 years for assulting a Serbian military officer. He was also due to face court for another incident but fled to avoid it.

With all due respect to Serbians, from the above article, I can understand his angst.

I only have one photo of my grandfather. He was standing outside a plane and he made the plane look small!
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Old 02-01-2017, 09:25 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
You're spot on SoM. The last link was completely saturated in anti-Macedonian dribble. Here's the Macedonia perspective of those events:

Macedonian Bloody Christmas (1945) - mass murder of more than 1,200 Macedonians who disagreed with the new Yugoslav politics.
January 7, 1945, the first day of Christmas - As a result of a list that was composed by Kolishevski in Vardar Macedonia, 1,200 people were killed without a trial or judgment. On December 26, 1944, a few days before Christmas 1945, several thousand soldiers and more than 100 officers rebelled at the barracks in Skopje and Shtip. They refused to comply with newly arrived order from Belgrade to leave for the front to protect Serbia and, instead, declared their desire for the Macedonian army to focus on Solun and the freedom of their compatriots from Aegean Macedonia. Tito's representatives, Svetomir Vukmanovich - Tempo, Lazar Kolishevski and General Mihailo Apostolski decided that now was the time for a showdown with "sympathisers of the Bulgarian occupier." They gathered around them the Serbian officers and told them that the mutineers were "bugarashi", "Vanchomihajlovisti", "VMRO-ists" and "fascists". General Apostolski invited the rebellious officers at the Officers Club in Skopje "to discuss the issue." Once there, the officers were immediately disarmed, arrested and imprisoned in the dungeons of the old Turkish Fortress. After a short interrogation, led personally by Tempo, 70 officers were shot in just a few hours. Just before being shot, Tempo would say to each: "So you want Solun?, here it is ...".

The soldiers, who by now had already retired to their barracks, sensed that something was happening with their officers and so around 1000 of them made their way back towards the center of Skopje. On arrival they were met by well barricaded Serbian partisans who immediately opened automatic fire on them, showing no mercy. About 100 dead are strewn in the square while more than 900 were arrested and imprisoned in the Skopje Fortress. They are kept there for over a month without bread, water and blankets. Almost all die of hunger and exposure to the cold. On the 6th, approaching the 7th, January 1945 began mass extermination of city mayors, priests, teachers and ordinary villagers throughout Macedonia. They were labelled "bugarashi" and "supporters of the Bulgarian fascist occupiers", without a trial or conviction. The hastily enacted law on "Protection of the Macedonian honour" was used to justify the purges.
The book referred to in the below thread is also relevant to the subject:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...eni+makedonija
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