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Old 07-17-2020, 10:17 AM   #11
Selanec
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A follow up to the previous video I posted as there was another mention of macedonia in this series - briefly in relation to Bulgaria wanting to take over it (starting at 4:44):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZRnz8yevj8

I will post more videos from the series as it gets mentioned
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:17 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stojacanec View Post
Selanec, you may want to look at "The Balkan Wars from Contemporary Perception to Historic Memory" from Sabine Rutar for Macedonian contribution in WW1 with references. Especially pages 291 to 313.
I have slowly been reading this book from the start and haven't gotten up to page 291 to 313 but I did find this section interesting regarding the Irish view of the Balkan wars and this section here about Macedonia - quite gruesome:

https://imgur.com/a/Lw5yohE

Last edited by Selanec; 07-21-2020 at 03:20 AM.
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Old 07-21-2020, 03:27 AM   #13
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Terrible times indeed, Selanec. And to think, now they are taking away everything from them for nothing more than a promise to think about promising them something. Same taxes will apply in due course and same lifestyle to follow.
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Old 07-22-2020, 06:59 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Selanec View Post
I have slowly been reading this book from the start and haven't gotten up to page 291 to 313 but I did find this section interesting regarding the Irish view of the Balkan wars and this section here about Macedonia - quite gruesome:

https://imgur.com/a/Lw5yohE
Wow, an Irishman sets up an "orphanage specifically for those [Macedonian] children whose parents had been killed in their fight to free Macedonia from Ottoman domination." I don't know what it is about the Irish but I've always had a soft spot for them. Growing up, a really good friend of mine had an Irish background and, his dad, who was a devout Catholic and an amateur boxer, loved having me around as he thought I was a really good influence on his son. I remember often discussing Macedonia with his dad which struck a chord with him as he was a hard-core Irish patriot who resented the fact that his homeland was divided too.

"Even though many of these children had gone on to settle in Ireland, they were now reported to be joining the struggle for their homeland's liberation." Why am I only hearing about this now? Young Macedonian children shipped over to Ireland to give them a second chance at survival. I can't even begin to imagine the horrors and hardships those poor kids must have experienced during those tragic times for Macedonia. I feel as though this has been completely omitted from Macedonian history.
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Old 07-23-2020, 10:59 PM   #15
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I feel as though this has been completely omitted from Macedonian history.
Much has been omitted from Macedonian history. In my opinion, there are a number of Macedonian historians who have done an excellent job in providing detailed assessments on specific periods or events in history, particularly those that hold a prominent place in our collective memory. However, Macedonian historiography has been failed when it comes to our all-inclusive history, which forms the basis of the overall truth and therefore our narrative. There is too much of our history (perhaps obscure in some cases, but important nonetheless) that has been excluded due to ignorance or lack of awareness.
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Old 07-24-2020, 10:08 PM   #16
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Continuing with the YouTube Channel Series "the great war", here is their quick background on Bulgaria:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x6P0uCtiPw&

They mention Macedonia but it seems only as an object (Bulgarians and Serbians were fighting over "Macedonia" and the people living there had no say about it (I suppose that's not the first time the people living there have no say about this).

Also I found it interesting that Sofia the capital of Bulgaria only had a population of 10,000 and it was only later that due to the influx of Macedonian refugees did the capital city grow in number (info from the above video).

In the coming episodes I am sure there will be more mentions of the fighting between Bulgaria and Serbia and it will be interesting to see how they portray Macedonia/Macedonians in this.

edit: Here is their follow up video from the last one, only mentions Macedonia as an object to be invaded: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ3atGlma1o&
edit2: Here is the following week with Bulgaria invading "serbia" including I imagine the region of Macedonia: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEQfFVHgY-g&
edit3: A week later: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe6yq2UAYBY&

Last edited by Selanec; 07-30-2020 at 01:24 AM. Reason: add follow up video
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Old 08-04-2020, 11:24 AM   #17
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In this video at around the 3 minute mark they talk about the Bulgarians and Serbians fighting and eventually they even do battle near "crna river":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BSMWbUSLyI

The French were apparently coming to the rescue for the Serbs!

edit: Next video shows more fighting between French and Bulgarians in order to rescue the Serbs - but eventually Bulgaria ends up taking up Veles - Also he mentions the fighting was near "arcangel mountain" - wonder what it would be called in macedonian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRiFkX6ytd4
edit2: Next video shows Babuna pass in Bitola or Ohrid region - perhaps baba region
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMKg-E7YVpU
edit3: Next video shows Serbs retreating into Albania - mentions Macedonia only as a region:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7s_ztC3UW0
edit4: Damir Kapija Shtip and Vardar river are mentioned (British and French fighting the Bulgarians) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFbdbHev-Ak&

Also with the video from edit4 I wish to include some of the comments from the users (great war are the people behind the videos):

Quote:
geoulas
4 years ago
Indy I like your show a lot. But the name o macedonia for a slavic region, is something wrong and you repeat it very often. It also confused us (greece) because a big region of greece (with all the ancient macedonian cities) are in our country. I think that you must call it southern serbia, because that was, for sure at ww1. Best regards, keep it high

The Great War
4 years ago
+geoulas If we do it like you suggest, the other half of our viewers from the Balkans will complain. Either way we loose. So, we will call them like our historical sources do.
and as was mentioned previously regarding the Irish connection of Macedonia:

Quote:
6–12 December 1915
8.000 Irish volunteers against 99.497 Bulgarian soldiers, in battle of Kosturino in South Serbia (today Macedonia). For 6 days of battle, 5.000 of Irish soldiers has fallen, to save the Serbian army during retreating through Albania.
The 10th (Irish) Division of the British Army made contact with the Bulgarians at the battle of Kosturino in December 1915. Some units, such as the 5th Connaught Rangers, came close to being wiped out. Despite a year of trench warfare in north-west Europe, the Irish troops in the Balkans had no mortars, no howitzers and not enough machine-guns, and ammunition for their field artillery was rationed. Just like the BEF in 1914, they were forced to rely on rapid-fire musketry against superior forces. The Bulgarians were held off, but a hazardous retreat to Salonika with few rations or pack animals ensued. Kosturino was a uniquely Irish historical event, however: an Irish army engaged with the Bulgarians, essentially alone, with their French allies out of sight over the mountains to their left.In December Irishman, still wearing summer uniforms, the severe snow and frost caused many casualties. The 10th Division, which included the 6th and 7th Dublins as well as a number of other Irish battalions, together with the Anglo-French forces, were ordered to retreat to Salonika, where during 1916 they were build up to strength again..
edit5: Here is the next week of the war which mentions Macedonia (around 5 minute mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDlhMIzijZ4

Last edited by Selanec; 08-12-2020 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 08-23-2020, 10:03 AM   #18
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Here is the next video that mentions Macedonia at around the 3:45 minute mark

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Gwir4m5qM0

- I like this one note made by a commentor on the video:

"A note about the Bulgarian army:
At this point, much of the Bulgarian army was made up of Macedonian conscripts from Vardar and Aegean Macedonia, conscripts who were not only largely convinced that they were fighting on land that was rightfully theirs, but also believed they were fighting for a foreign occupier. By WW1 the Macedonian Nationalist movement was in full swing and many if not most Macedonians viewed Bulgaria as an occupying oppressor(the conscriptions, forceful seizures of property and supplies etc. to fuel the war didn't help either) , that's on top of the fact that many Macedonian soldiers had previously been fighting against the Bulgarians and Ottomans for the better part of 30 years between the Uprisings, the Balkan wars and early WW1 . As such, most Macedonians were more sympathetic to the Entente.

To this day, the French and British soldiers who fought and died in Vardar and Aegean Macedonia are celebrated as heroes whereas there's little love for the Bulgarian soldiers and much resentment over the mass conscriptions."
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Old 08-24-2020, 03:11 AM   #19
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Now that is a very interesting statement, I wonder what sources they utilised?
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