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Old 12-10-2017, 09:16 PM   #21
Tomche Makedonche
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Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
I'm more interested in knowing why the fuck you people go to visit that racist shithole...???

I get the fact that some are visiting their ancestral villages but for those of you doing the whole tourist thing...WTF people?

We've already done to death the whole 'fyromian' futility thread and yet the diaspora are just as culpable when it comes to self respect.

Personally, I wouldn't give those cunts the steam off my piss...just remember, the standard you walk past, is the standard you accept.
I can't say I share this sentiment.

I personally always try to visit occupied territories on any trip I make over there, I mean why wouldn't I?, its all our country isn't it?, its all Macedonia isn't it?. Are you going to let the Greeks stop you from visiting and enjoying your own land?

Unless of course you think it isn't your own land, that it isn't Macedonia?

If so, do you also think that there also aren't any Macedonians still living and working there?

The Greeks may govern it, like many other nations and empires have in the past, but its not theirs, its ours, as soon as you treat it as theirs, then it will become theirs. As far as I'm concerned, the bigger the Macedonian presence is in the occupied territories, socializing with one another, speaking our language, enjoying our culture, the better.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:24 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Solun View Post
I didn't think there were Macedonian speaking villages on the Halkidiki peninsula even as late as the 20th century. Maybe there were as late as the 18th and 19th century. In Solunsko there of course still are Macedonian speaking villages. Could you just clarify where you believe these people come from who at least understood Macedonian?
It is hard to say whether any Macedonians you come across at the coastal tourist areas are actually indigenous to that area, from my experience and understanding, those that reside there have most likely moved there from more northern areas, however, most you come across are there on the account of seasonal work (during the summer). There is also a decent presence of seasonal workers from the Republic making their way there as well. All advantageous considering the large presence of holiday makers from the Republic
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“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:56 PM   #23
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I never really thought about it that way. Actually the only way they convinced me to actually go, was that I wasn't going to Greece, rather to Egejska Makedonija, it made me feel better about it.

You do make an interesting point, if we do consider it as part of our homeland, then how can we let them keep us from going there.

On the other hand, how do you reconcile the fact that you are contributing to their economy, which in turn is the same as giving money directly the the same government that wants to wipe our people off the map?



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Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
I can't say I share this sentiment.

I personally always try to visit occupied territories on any trip I make over there, I mean why wouldn't I?, its all our country isn't it?, its all Macedonia isn't it?. Are you going to let the Greeks stop you from visiting and enjoying your own land?

Unless of course you think it isn't your own land, that it isn't Macedonia?

If so, do you also think that there also aren't any Macedonians still living and working there?

The Greeks may govern it, like many other nations and empires have in the past, but its not there's, its ours, as soon as you treat it as theirs, then it will become theirs. As far as I'm concerned, the bigger the Macedonian presence is in the occupied territories, socializing with one another, speaking our language, enjoying our culture, the better.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:20 PM   #24
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On the other hand, how do you reconcile the fact that you are contributing to their economy, which in turn is the same as giving money directly the the same government that wants to wipe our people off the map?
I suppose the same way you do when you visit the Republic?
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:32 PM   #25
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If you want to make a difference in Macedonia itself you need to talk to the Macedonians living there. Physically visiting them is one way to do it. The more contact they have with Macedonians living abroad the less stuck in the isolation of their respective regions they'll be, which'll help them get a more complete perspective of the situation rather than perpetuating the problematic thinking everyone's been taking issue with.
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Old 12-11-2017, 12:19 AM   #26
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Touche batka touche.

We need a smiley for drop the mike.

Lets be honest, the vast majority of Macedonian tourists to Aegean Macedonia are just making Greeks richer, I don't think they are helping in any way. I saw them over there, they are perfect little tourists. We need to be more obnoxious, meet their racism with stubbornness, not sheepishness.

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I suppose the same way you do when you visit the Republic?
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Old 12-11-2017, 03:11 AM   #27
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Lets be honest, the vast majority of Macedonian tourists to Aegean Macedonia are just making Greeks richer, I don't think they are helping in any way.
In the Republic, did you ever buy groceries at Vero?, fill up at OKTA?, make a withdrawal at Stopanska?

All Greek owned.

There are many more businesses, hotels, restaurants, etc owned by Greeks in the Republic as well, in fact many of, what would be labelled as, our enemies hold financial interests within the Republic (i.e I mean the Turks own the airport), so personally I think that kind of line of thought in reality isn't practical, theoretically it may be, but in today's reality it just isn't. The best any of us can do is avoid any businesses that are publicly vocal against us.

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I saw them over there, they are perfect little tourists. We need to be more obnoxious, meet their racism with stubbornness, not sheepishness.
Well I agree that there is an aspect within that which could be improved. Whilst I understand that people from the Republic, who have worked their asses off to save up some spare cash in order to take their family for a holiday, are just looking to enjoy themselves and make good memories for their family (which they have every right to) and aren't actually looking to spoil it by having head on confrontations with the odd empty headed indoctrinated "Greek" racist, I still can't say Im on board when they deliberately say they are Serb's or some other nationality to avoid confrontation at all costs. It really is detrimental to the cause, especially for Macedonians residing in the occupied territories. These cunts that start this shit already know who you are and where you come from, they know from your car, from your language, they are not ignorant to that fact, they are just racist indoctrinated cunts who most of the time know fuck all about the actual reality of the situation (seriously a lot have given me the impression that the actual reason they are pissed off with us is because they think we are saying that Greek occupied Macedonia isn't Macedonia, only the Republic is, they are seriously on another tangent). I'm not saying they need to start a fight with them, just don't try and hide who you are, because believe me they already know who you are.

To be honest, from my experience, the most confrontation I come across is in Solun, there I have encountered out right hate. The tourist area's are hit and miss, in the end they rely on us for their livings, so they need to be amicable, plus there are a lot of Macedonians working within the hospitality area there. Of course the more you move away from Solun, the less face to face confrontation you are likely to encounter and the more you will openly start to get responses in Macedonian.
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“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio

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Old 12-11-2017, 03:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
I can't say I share this sentiment.

I personally always try to visit occupied territories on any trip I make over there, I mean why wouldn't I?, its all our country isn't it?, its all Macedonia isn't it?. Are you going to let the Greeks stop you from visiting and enjoying your own land?

Unless of course you think it isn't your own land, that it isn't Macedonia?

If so, do you also think that there also aren't any Macedonians still living and working there?

The Greeks may govern it, like many other nations and empires have in the past, but its not there's, its ours, as soon as you treat it as theirs, then it will become theirs. As far as I'm concerned, the bigger the Macedonian presence is in the occupied territories, socializing with one another, speaking our language, enjoying our culture, the better.
The way it's heading you'll be adding the Republic to your next tour of the occupied territories...I'd prefer to battle to establish a beachhead before launching further action elsewhere...
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Old 12-11-2017, 09:52 AM   #29
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NO
Quote:
In the Republic, did you ever buy groceries at Vero?
NO
Quote:
fill up at OKTA
Pichkamu stopankina
Quote:
make a withdrawal at Stopanska?
Macedonians should boycott all of them.


If there was ever a time and place to be vocally Macedonian its while in the occupied territories. Jews would never remove their yamakas just so they can blend in better in a hostile environment. That is why they have a nation despite all the odds.

What kind of example do you set for the local Macedonians in occupied territories if you afraid to be even temporarily Macedonian, while encouraging them to be permanently Macedonian and face much harsher reprisal.

I view it as our duty if not to get into heated confrontation to at least be abused. Honestly that is a powerful headline in today's media. "Macedonian tourists get abused why vacationing in Greece". You don't have to fight back. At least stand your ground, make it known who you are and just go about your business. If the Greek racists want to harass you then so be it. Then you need your local government and cultural organizations to file complaints with Greece and other relevant international agencies.

At the least it makes us more visible and possibly gets us some sympathy points.

But by being a coward and pretending to be Serbian, I mean come on.




[quote]
Quote:
and aren't actually looking to spoil it by having head on confrontations with the odd empty headed indoctrinated "Greek" racist, I still can't say Im on board when they deliberately say they are Serb's or some other nationality to avoid confrontation at all costs. It really is detrimental to the cause, especially for Macedonians residing in the occupied territories.
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Old 12-11-2017, 07:16 PM   #30
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Gocka,

I hope you can share more of your travel stories and experiences, particularly those that you had in the Republic...

I understand that you'll be sidetracked a little with other people's comments but if you could keep on sharing it would be great.

My favourite stories are anything to do with customer service in the old country...and with you being an American, I'm guessing the differences would be quite staggering...

Also, I would love to hear about what the locals really think about ZZ and Grujo...joining the EU & NATO...handing the country on a silver platter to the shiptari and other gjupski raboti...

Cheers
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