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Old 02-12-2009, 08:21 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Dejan View Post
But there already was a Europe before 1830
And there was already a Greece before 800BC. Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.

Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demos View Post
And there was already a Greece before 800BC. Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.

Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!

That's it he got us guys. He destroyed the Macedonian propaganda machine in one annihilating sentence And again Demos your need to perpetuate the myth that you have something in common with the dead ancient race of Hellenes brings me to quote myself once again since you obviously need to read this once again.

Quote:
Demos you're still under the spell of Philhellenic BS. I think anything you say, just like Terrable Nova, should be placed in the Default of Logic shelf at the local market and sold for a million dollars so as to deter anyone for buying into your type of logic.

Mainland "greece" swarmed with Albanians at one time and somehow today the imposter Hellenes are culturally related to Pericles, Demosthenes, Hercules, Disease, Amputees,etc. Default of logic at its worst.

And here I quote you saying;
Quote:
Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.
Really YOUR Olympic games lolololol. Was Marko Bocari in the discus throw??? And did Boubalina win on freestyle Amuse us some more. Tell me how else you are culturally related to the dead race of ancient Hellenes???
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Old 02-13-2009, 06:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demos View Post
And there was already a Greece before 800BC. Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.

Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!
What are you doing dipping your nose in ancient history? Are you a direct descendant of the ancients? If so please provide proof of this.
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Old 02-14-2009, 03:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Demos View Post
And there was already a Greece before 800BC. Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.

Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!
Nobody was 'greek' before 1830
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Old 02-14-2009, 07:58 AM   #15
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^^
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1821–32) Rebellion of Greeks within the Ottoman empire. The revolt began under the leadership of Alexandros Ypsilanti (1792–1828). He was soon defeated, but in the meantime other rebels in Greece and on several islands gained control of the Peloponnese and declared Greek independence (1822). Three times the Turks attempted invasions. Internal rivalries prevented the Greeks from extending their control and consolidating their position. With Egyptian reinforcements, the Turks successfully invaded the Peloponnese and captured several cities, but the intervention of the European powers saved the Greek cause. A settlement was finally reached at an 1830 London conference, declaring Greece an independent monarchical state.For more information on Greek Independence, War of, visit Britannica.com.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1B1-366081.html

The southern Pelloponese had a fierce Greek identity before 1830, I assure you that.
Of all the Greeks , the southern ones are the most xenophobic and have the least tolerance for foreign occupation/rule.

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Peloponnese
British historian W. Alison Phillips, who wrote the history of the Greek revolution, noted in 1897:

Everywhere, as though at a preconcerted signal, the peasantry rose, and massacred all the Turks—men, women and children—on whom they could lay hands. In the Morea shall no Turk be left. Nor in the whole wide world. Thus rang the song which, from mouth to mouth, announced the beginning of a war of extermination... Within three weeks of the outbreak of the revolt, not a Moslem was left, save those who had succeeded in escaping into the towns.[2]

According to another historian of the Greek revolt, William St. Clair, upwards of twenty thousand Turkish men, women and children were killed by their Greek neighbors in a few weeks of slaughter.[3] William St. Clair also argued that: "with the beginning of the revolt, the bishops and priests exhorted their parishioners to exterminate infidel Moslems."[4] St. Clair wrote:

The Turks of Greece left few traces. They disappeared suddenly and finally in the spring of 1821 unmourned and unnoticed by the rest of the world....It was hard to believe then that Greece once contained a large population of Turkish descent, living in small communities all over the country, prosperous farmers, merchants, and officials, whose families had known no other home for hundreds of years...They were killed deliberately, without qualm or scruple, and there was no regrets either then or later.[5]

Atrocities toward the Turkish civilian population inhabiting the Peloponnese had started in the Achaia on the 28th of March, just with the beginning of the Greek revolt.[6] On the 2nd of April, the outbreak became general over the whole of Peloponnese and on that day many Turks were murdered in different places.[7] On the third of April 1821, the Turks of Kalavryta surrendered upon promises of security which were afterwards violated.[8] Followingly, massacres ensued against the Turkish civilians in the towns of Peloponnese that the Greek revolutionnaries had captured.

The Turks in Monemvasia, weakened by the famine opened the gates of the city, and laid down their weapons. Six hundred of them had already gone on board the brigs,when the Mainotes burst into the town and started murdering all those who had not yet reached to the shore or those who had chosen to stay in the town.[9] Those on the ships meanwhile were stripped of their clothes, beaten and left on a desolate rock in the Aegean, instead of being deported to Asia Minor as promised. Only a few of them were saved by a French merchant, called M. Bonfort.

The worst Greek atrocity in terms of the numbers of victims involved was the massacre following the Fall of Tripolitsa in 1822. Up to 30,000 Turks had been killed in Tripolitsa:

For three days the miserable inhabitants were given over to lust and cruelty of a mob of savages. Neither sex nor age was spared. Women and children were tortured before being put to death. So great was the slaughter that Kolokotronis himself says that, from the gate to the citadel his horse’s hoofs never touched the ground. His path of triumph was carpeted with corpses. At the end of two days, the wretched remnant of the Mussulmans were deliberately collected, to the number of some two thousand souls, of every age and sex, but principally women and children, were led out to a ravine in the neighboring mountains and there butchered like cattle.[10]

Although the total estimates of the casualties vary, the Turkish, Moslem Albanian and Jewish population of the Peloponnese had ceased to exist as a settled community.[1] Some estimates of the Turkish and Muslim Albanian civilian deaths by the rebels range from 15,000 out of 40,000 Muslim residents[11] to 30,000 only in Tripolitsa.[12] According to historians W.Alison Phillips, George Finlay, William St. Clair and Barbara Jelavich, massacres of Turkish civilians started simultaneously with the outbreak of the revolt,[13][14][4][15] while Harris J. Booras and David Brewer wrote that the massacres followed the brutal hanging of Ecumenical Patriarch Gregory V of Constantinople.[16][17]

Historian George Finlay claimed that the extermination of the Muslims in the rural districts was the result of a premeditated design and it proceeded more from the suggestions of men of letters, than form the revengeful feelings of the people.[18] William St. Clair wrote that: "The orgy of genocide exhausted itself in the Peloponnese only when there were no more Turks to kill."[19]
Quote:
The rural Peloponnese is renowned for being amongst the most traditionalist and conservative
regions of Greece and is a stronghold of the right-wing New Democracy party, while the larger urban centres like Kalamata and especially Patras are bastions of the centre-left Panhellenic Socialist Movement
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Peloponnese

Quote:
The Venetians occupied parts of the peninsula between 1699-1718 but Turkish control was otherwise solid and opposed only by sporadic rebellions in the Mani Peninsula, the southernmost part of the Peloponnese.
The southerners can be a fierce bunch if need arise, lol

Last edited by Spartan; 02-14-2009 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 02-14-2009, 08:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demos View Post
Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!
I'll repeat myself again:

The absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence!

Learn your science of history first.
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This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.
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Old 02-17-2009, 11:58 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
I'll repeat myself again:

The absence of evidence is not the same thing as evidence of absence!

Learn your science of history first.

You're asking him to do alot now Tomas
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:48 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demos View Post
And there was already a Greece before 800BC. Our Olympics began in prior to 700BC.

Yet, you "natives" can show me one document written in Macedonian before 600AD!
Here are a small number of artefacts of the Modern Macedonian language from 2000 B.C. and 1,500 B.C.

http://www.unet.com.mk/ancient-maced...pomenici-e.htm
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Old 08-22-2009, 12:46 PM   #19
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More MTO readers making videos of material off of this forum.

YouTube - GREECE SPOILED CHILD OF EUROPE 1

SunfromGovrlevo may I recommend you re-do this video and make the images a bit bigger so the words are more readble. Other than that nice job.
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Old 08-25-2009, 03:20 AM   #20
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T.M - this is great.

He raises some valid questions about "Greek claims".
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