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Old 02-17-2011, 05:25 PM   #1
Daskalot
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Default Mother tongue, MACEDONIAN, Lerin(Florina) 1954!



Greek:
Quote:
ΜΗΤΡΙΚΗ ΓΛΩΣΣΑ Η ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΚΗ

Οι κάτοικοι του νομού Φλώρινας το 1954, στα έντυπα που συμπλήρωναν για την έκδοση προσωπικών εγγράφων, ληξιαρχικών πράξεων γέννησης, γάμου, θανάτου, ανέφεραν ότι η μητρική τους γλώσσα, όπως και η γλώσσα των γονέων τους, είναι η μακεδόνικη. Επίσης μέρος του πληθυσμού ανέφερε ως μητρική γλώσσα τη βλάχικη, την αλβανική, τη λαζική κτλ. αυτό το επιβεβαιώνει και αναφέρει η Διοίκηση και ο Νομάρχης του νομού Φλώρινας, ο οποίος σε συμφωνία με τα εθνικά ιδεώδη του κράτους, διατάσει όλους τους ληξίαρχους και υπαλλήλους να συμπληρώνουν στο τμήμα της γλώσσας, μόνο την ελληνική. Εκτός των ληξιάρχων, το έγγραφο αυτό είχε σταλεί και στα Υπουργεία Εσωτερικών και Εξωτερικών. Αριθμός εγγράφου 139. Ημερομηνία έκδοσης 11 Μαρτίου 1954 Φλώρινα. Υπογράφει ο Νομάρχης Κ.Τουσίλδης.
English translated by Google Translate.
Quote:
MOTHER TONGUE MACEDONIAN

The inhabitants of Florina in 1954, completed the forms for issuing personal documents, birth registry, marriage, death, reported that the mother tongue as the language of their parents, is Macedonian. Also part of the population reported a mother tongue of the Vlach, Albanian, etc. Laziki to this report confirms the Administration and the Prefect of Florina, which is in agreement with the "national ideals" of the state, stretching all the registrar and employees to fill in part of the language, only the Greek. In addition to the registrar, the letter was sent to the Ministries of Interior and Foreign Affairs. Document number 139. Date March 11, 1954 Florina. Signed by the Prefect K. Tousildis.
Source: http://novazora.gr/arhivi/2033
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:03 PM   #2
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For anyone who is curious to know who spoke the Laziki language mentioned above, here is a link to wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laz_people

This is a new group of people who most likely arrived in Macedonia during the population exchange between Turkey and Greece in the 1920s.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:46 PM   #3
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Laz people in Greece???!!!! Thats something new for me cuz i was thinking all the Laz people are muslims and i wonder how they gone to Greece in population exchange??

There is one and only explanation for that. Blacksea people was the most mixed among all the people of Anatolia. Basically, religious difference didn't mean much for them. So, they were intermarrying with each other without any barrier for centuries. So, they should be Laz people who married with christians and then end up in Lerin in 1923.

Btw, Laz people are Georgians who has been mixed with Turks and Greeks centuries ago. I think, our current PM, Erdogan has Laz roots.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:23 AM   #4
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What about Yuruks ? I know there was settlements of them in Macedonia in the middle ages. At least thats what I read. Could it be there language ?
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:31 AM   #5
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Voltron, can you help us out with a complete translation of the posted document into English, you being fluent in Greek is a good help.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:35 AM   #6
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Yes, I will. Give me a few.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:37 AM   #7
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Thank you, it will be an interesting read.
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Old 02-18-2011, 05:18 AM   #8
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Im looking at it now. Its a long document and it will be hard for me to post it right now verbatim. I try to have it translated later when I get home.

It looks like its an official document expressing concern of Anti-Hellenic Propaganda that was being viewed as being used by Communists. They are concerned that people that are expressing themselves as Macedonians or speaking Macedonian are viewed as agents of the North. They were answering on official documents such as Birth, Death, Marriage using other ethnic identifiers other than Greek. It goes on to give reasoning as to why those identifiers such as Macedonian - Slav Macedonian, language: Macedonian - Slavo Macedonian is wrong.

It reconciles with what Voskopoulos was saying in the interview in the Mango Sonce thread. It is an intersting read and I will try to have the whole doc uploaded soon. Some words are hard to translate in English. Its only the first page to, there's more to it.
I get the feeling that the communism period is when this all happened and prior to that it was really a non-issue. Unless Im wrong about that.

Last edited by Voltron; 02-18-2011 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 06:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
What about Yuruks ? I know there was settlements of them in Macedonia in the middle ages. At least thats what I read. Could it be there language ?
Not only Macedonia, there was yoruks in southern Albania and Bulgaria too. There was no such a thing as yoruk language cuz yoruks are Turks and they speak Turkish. They were semi-nomadic Turks who still had customs of central asia, Eurasia. They were the first group who migrated in to the Balkans in 14th century, just to look for new steppes and mountains for their sheep, goats etc.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
I get the feeling that the communism period is when this all happened and prior to that it was really a non-issue. Unless Im wrong about that.
I don't think so. The existence of non-Greek people in Macedonia was always a problem for Greece since day one, in 1913. They "resolved" the Turkish problem(600.000 Turks of Aegean Macedonia) in there with population exchange by deporting them to Turkey. Then afterwards, they "resolved" the Jewish problem in 1920s-1930s by setting fire in whole Jewish quarter in Salonika and forced them to leave Greece. You know, Metaxas didn't even permit Jews to rebuild their homes and 10.000s of Jews slept in the ruined streets of Salonika `till they left Greece. Then only nuisance remained in there was Macedonians after 1930s.

It`s quite possible that they used this "communism" nonsense, just to demonize them. Shortly after the WW-2, the terms of "communist and communism" was the most popular insult in capitalist world. If anyone wanted to demonize someone or some group, they were getting accused by being communist. It was like that in Turkey, USA and capitalist Europe too.

And it was exact reverse in communist states. For example, communist Bulgarian government used same pretense for Turks of Bulgaria and they have been accused by being the spy of NATO and 350.000 of them has been expelled out. Earlier, Tito did same for the Turks of Macedonia too.


So, for the Macedonians of Greece, the real problem was they weren't considering themselves as Greeks and this was a possible threat for Greece according to your politicians. So, they used the most popular crime of that era as a pretense, "being communist". Well, actually they were right. It was indeed a threat for Greece, because in 1940s-1950s, Macedonia was a Greek territory only for 3-4 decades, not more.

Greek population in Aegean Macedonia was not more than 10% before 1923. After all that population exchange, expelling Jews and civil war to kill so-called communists, Macedonia became 100% Greek in paper, in just 25-30 years of time.

Last edited by Onur; 02-18-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 02-18-2011, 07:19 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
What about Yuruks ? I know there was settlements of them in Macedonia in the middle ages. At least thats what I read. Could it be there language ?
The Yoruk settlements in Macedonia had some links with the middle ages, however Yoruks were still found in Macedonia until they were evicted in 1923 to make room for Pontic refugees. In 1900 there were over 40,000 Turks in the Kozani region, of which the majority were Yoruks. The former name of Ptolemaida, Kailar, comes from the name which the Yoruk turks used to call themselves (the same name is still used by Macedonians living in that region).
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