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Old 09-30-2008, 10:23 PM   #1
Philosopher
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Default Aristotle, the Macedonian?

Clearly, both Greeks and Macedonians claim the great teacher Aristotle as their own. Aristotle was from Macedonia but he is deemed to have been Greek by everyone.

Was not Aristotle mixed, part Macedonian and part Hellenic? Does anyone have any supporting evidence? Was his father Macedonian or mother?

It would make sense to argue that Philip, the Macedonian King, entrusted his son's education with Aristotle, a fellow Macedonian for the job. But, alas, all of Aristotle's works were written in Greek; like St. Paul's epistles were written in koine, even though he was not a Hellene.

So this doesn't mean Aristotle was a hellene, even though people start with an a prior assumption that this is the case.

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Old 09-30-2008, 10:28 PM   #2
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I dont know his lineage, but Im pretty sure he was educated in Athens, by Plato and other Athenian scholars.Thus all his works are in Greek. Imo, he must have been at least half Greek to have been given a Greek name by his parents.Although this is no guarantee, it is likely as I see it.
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Old 10-01-2008, 01:39 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Philosopher View Post
Clearly, both Greeks and Macedonians claim the great teacher Aristotle as their own. Aristotle was from Macedonia but he is deemed to have been Greek by everyone.

Was not Aristotle mixed, part Macedonian and part Hellenic? Does anyone have any supporting evidence? Was his father Macedonian or mother?

It would make sense to argue that Philip, the Macedonian King, entrusted his son's education with Aristotle, a fellow Macedonian for the job. But, alas, all of Aristotle's works were written in Greek; like St. Paul's epistles were written in koine, even though he was not a Hellene.

So this doesn't mean Aristotle was a hellene, even though people start with an a prior assumption that this is the case.

Suggestions...?
It doesn't mean he was a hellene, your right.

I don't think he was into politics, in the way, say Herotodus might be into it, or from another point of view, Demosthenes.

What is certain is that Aristotle taught Alexander the Great to speak in Greek. Aristotle would have had to have learned his Greek from somewhere, but at the same time, it is interesting that Phillip chose a native of Macedonia. Would he have intrusted the education of Alexander to a Greek?

Perhaps there is more to this story than meets the eye? Perhaps it was the Macedonian, in Aristotle, that made him the suitable candidtate to educate Alexander?

I havn't heard anyone describe Aristotle as a Greek. I've heard him desribed as a Greek Philosopher, but that is not the same thing. What are we disputing here?
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:02 AM   #4
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no doubt, he, ARISTOTEL, was a pure macedonian

Athenian FACTS that ARISTOTLE was NOT GREEK but MACEDONIAN
YouTube - Athenian FACTS that ARISTOTLE was NOT GREEK but MACEDONIAN
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:04 AM   #5
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Prof. Nestor Oginar - Aristotel the Macedonian
YouTube - Prof. Nestor Oginar - Aristotel the Macedonian
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:17 AM   #6
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Spartan,

It is common knowledge that Aristotle was a disciple of Plato and of Athenian education. That is not the question. As for his name being Greek and thus he was a "Greek," my response is this.

There are many instances of people having Greek names, who were not Greek themselves. The apostle Philip, one of the 12 disciples, was a Jew through and through; and yet, he had a "Greek name." The same applies for Petros (Saint Peter), etc. If your name was Michael or Daniel or Gabriel, etc, does this make you a Hebrew or Jew? No, it is an international name used by different cultures.

Since you are Orthodox and you believe in Christ, does this make you a Jew, since you worship a Christ? Are the ancient Macedonians "Greek" because they worshipped Greek gods, even though these gods were not really Greek at all? I don't think so.

Aristotle's name is not in dispute; the question is: was he a Greek or Macedonian.

I'm rather surprised that Macedonians don't argue over this subject more than they do; with Alexander the Great Macedonians fight to death to proclaim him a Macedonian but with Aristotle, there is less noise.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:18 AM   #7
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ARISTOTEL MAKEDONECOT - Angelina Markus
YouTube - ARISTOTEL MAKEDONECOT, PART 4/4 - FILIP PETROVSKI
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:30 AM   #8
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Spartan,

It is common knowledge that Aristotle was a disciple of Plato and of Athenian education. That is not the question. As for his name being Greek and thus he was a "Greek," my response is this.

There are many instances of people having Greek names, who were not Greek themselves. The apostle Philip, one of the 12 disciples, was a Jew through and through; and yet, he had a "Greek name." The same applies for Petros (Saint Peter), etc. If your name was Michael or Daniel or Gabriel, etc, does this make you a Hebrew or Jew? No, it is an international name used by different cultures.

Since you are Orthodox and you believe in Christ, does this make you a Jew, since you worship a Christ? Are the ancient Macedonians "Greek" because they worshipped Greek gods, even though these gods were not really Greek at all? I don't think so.

Aristotle's name is not in dispute; the question is: was he a Greek or Macedonian.

I'm rather surprised that Macedonians don't argue over this subject more than they do; with Alexander the Great Macedonians fight to death to proclaim him a Macedonian but with Aristotle, there is less noise.
Im just saying it is likely, imo, that he was at least half Greek, given his name and language. Of course, this may not be the case, as you explained in your examples above, it however seems the most logical explanation given what we know of the man.
Again, this is just my opinion.
The reason his identity is not argued as much imo, is that his written works and teachings pale in comparison to the conquerings of Alexander and the Macedonians. Not to say they are of less importance, but defietely not as "glorious" to the average reader of history.
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Old 10-05-2008, 11:09 PM   #9
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Im just saying it is likely, imo, that he was at least half Greek, given his name and language. Of course, this may not be the case, as you explained in your examples above, it however seems the most logical explanation given what we know of the man.
Again, this is just my opinion.
The reason his identity is not argued as much imo, is that his written works and teachings pale in comparison to the conquerings of Alexander and the Macedonians. Not to say they are of less importance, but defietely not as "glorious" to the average reader of history.
I can see how you might think he is a Greek, given his name and use of the Greek langauge - Sure, given what we know of the man I can see the logic.

But, given what we know of ancient Macedonia, and the ancient Macedonians, changes the picture.

I think that is the point. The ancient Macedonians were not Greeks, given the weight of contemporary sources - now if we sketch in this context, then questions about Aristotel rightfully have their place.
Was he a Greek or a Macedonian?
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Old 10-07-2008, 08:22 PM   #10
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Default Alexander the Great, his letter, and Atlantis.

The ancient Macedonian King, Alexander the Great, was taught when he was young by Aristotle, his pupil and perhaps second only to Plato in philosophic importance, the great mysteries, which, hitherto, were only known by the adepts. This philosophy was secret; legend has it that Plato's teaching's on Atlantis, the great city that Zeus destroyed with a deluge, was fact, as Plato himself intimates.

It is argued that Aristotle believed that Plato fabricated the story of Atlantis to serve as a moral inducement towards piety and righteousness. However, some argue that Aristotle believed Plato's account was true but that he feared that non-initiates would understand the great Mysteries and the great Plan which was hitherto cloaked.

The young Alexander, being the product of a profound liberal education, desired to conquer and unite the world under a system of world government--to realize the dreams of his tutors before him. His conquests were not, contrary to common knowledge, any desire to spread Hellenic culture and language; Alexander was a globalist like few in his day. He understood in order that the Great Plan to be fullfilled he would have to subdue the known world. This was but the first element in the Great Plan to come.

As Aristotle so hotly pursued to fulfill these dreams, he was reproved by Aristotle for revealing too much of the Mysteries to the unitiated. Aristotle warned and chided him that if the Great Plan was to be a success, he would have to keep it cloaked.

In the influential book, "City of God," St. Augustine recounts a story "And, to treat Numa with all honor, let us mention as belonging to the same rank as these writings that which Alexander of Macedon wrote to his mother as communicated to him by Leo, an Egyptian high priest. In this letter not only Picus and Faunus, and Aneas and Romulus or even Hercules, and Aesculapius and Liber, born of Semel, and the twin sons of Tyndaresu, or any other mortals who have been deified, but even the principal gods themselves, to whom Cicero, in his Tusculan questions, alludes without mentioning their names, Jupiter, Juno, Saturn, Vulcan, Vesta, and many others whom Varro attempts to identify with the parts or the elements of the world, are shown to have been men. There is, as we have said, a similarity between this case and that of Numa; for the priest being afraid because he had revealed a mystery, earnestly begged of Alexander to command his mother to burn the letter which conveyed these communications to her."

The Ancient Mystery plans to establish a New Atlantis, according to some, was Alexander's great dream. When Alexander invaded Judea, he believed he was acting according to the plans of the Great God himself, as the Prophet of old had predicted "The king of Javan" will come to Judea. It is interesting to note that this same Prophet, Daniel, predicted that after Alexander's fall, "The ram that thou hast seen possessing two horns, are the kings of Media and Persia. And the young he-goat, the hairy one, is the king of Javan; and the great horn that is between its eyes is the first king; and that being broken, stand up do four in its place, four kingdoms from the nation do stand up, and not in its power."

Alexander searched far and wide to learn more about the secret Wisdom; he understood that, after Atlantis fell, a few Atlanteans had survived and took their great and vast knowledge to Egypt, India, and Tibet. Alexander went in search of such knowledge.

Plato believed that the Atlantean myth was fact and that it was the universal example of the ideal form of Government, similar to his Philosopher Kings in the Republic. Plato endeavored, through his Academy, in his lifetime, to create adepts who would pass on this secret knowledge from generation to generation until the Great Plan was realized.

Alexander did not achieve the Great Plans. This plan is still ciculating today among the Adepts of the Mysteries.
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