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Old 07-06-2018, 02:16 PM   #61
tchaiku
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When I said Western Turkey I actually meant coastal Turkey like in the map shown above.

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Old 07-14-2018, 08:36 AM   #62
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1) Full URL to the book:
https://books.google.ca/books?id=2FZ...page&q&f=false

Origines: or, Remarks on the origin of several empires, states and ..., Volume 4, By Sir William Drummond, Thomas James Matthias



Read everything not just what I highlighted/pointed out.












2)


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Old 07-17-2018, 10:01 AM   #63
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Old 07-17-2018, 11:56 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by tchaiku View Post
So much for Izmir being completely Greek.
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I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
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Old 07-18-2018, 07:30 AM   #65
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Who produced this map?

Very interesting how the Muslims, most of whom were Turkish-speakers, are denoted simply as "Musulmans" -- while the Orthodox Christians, many of whom were Turkish-speakers as well, are denoted as "Grecs". Curious to know why was it done in this way? Why were the Muslims not called Turks in the map?
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:17 AM   #66
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Who produced this map?

Very interesting how the Muslims, most of whom were Turkish-speakers, are denoted simply as "Musulmans" -- while the Orthodox Christians, many of whom were Turkish-speakers as well, are denoted as "Grecs". Curious to know why was it done in this way? Why were the Muslims not called Turks in the map?
'Grecs' = Rum Orthodox Christians.

Oh and majority of 'Grecs' (of Anatolia only not including Thrace) came outside of Western coastal Turkey, where the Hellenes founded colonies, despite what the maps of 19th century imply.

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Old 08-13-2018, 11:50 PM   #67
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Old 08-14-2018, 10:08 AM   #68
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And make your own conclusions that a large number of Pontians and Asia-Minor refugees DID NOT speak Greek except the Turkish language. And many of them continue to talk about it to this day with an admirable zeal, as well as expressing their nostalgia at every opportunity with everything to do with Turkey and the very oriental traits.
There are stories in Turkey, which I have heard just lately, that some Karamanlides in order to NOT leave Turkey for Greece during the population exchange started marrying Muslims and converting to Islam.

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Old 08-18-2018, 08:30 PM   #69
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There are stories in Turkey, which I have heard just lately, that some Karamanlides in order to NOT leave Turkey for Greece during the population exchange started marrying Muslims and converting to Islam.
Interesting. Curious to know how you came across these stories? Do you have more information?
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:02 PM   #70
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Variorum Reprints. Collected Studies series
Byzantium: its internal history and relations with the Muslim World
Collected Studies. Preface by Milton V. Anastos
Professor Speros Vryonis Jr.
Variorum reprints, London 1971

IV. ST. IOANNICIUS THE GREAT (754-846) AND THE «SLAVS» OF BITHYNIA

There seems to be some reason to suggest, though the evidence is not complete, that St. Ioannicius was possibly a descendent of the Bulgars transplanted in Bithynia during the seventh century by the Byzantines. In the early part of the Vita written by his contemporary and associate, Sabas, occurs an interview between Ioannicius and the emperor Constantine VI. The occasion is a remarkable feat of arms which Ioannicius accomplished in a severe battle with the Bulgarians.

Ὅθεν δὴ τότε θαυμάσας ὁ βασιλεὺς τὸ ἀνδρεῖον τοῦ στρατιώτου · ὦ παῖ καλέ, φησί, ποιας χώρας καὶ στρατίας εἶ σύ, καὶ τί σου ὑπάρχει, λέγει, τὸ ὄνομα ; Ὁ δὲ εἰρηκὼς ὡς χώρας μέν ἐστι Βιθυνῶν ἐπαρχίας, κώμης δὲ τῶν Μαρυκάτου καὶ γἐνους τῶν Βοϊλάδων, τήν τε κλῆσιν πέλει Ἰωαννίκιος, καὶ τὴν στρατείαν ἐξσκουβίτωρ (1).

The family name, given here in the plural, Βοϊλάδων (Βοϊλάς in the singular), is the main reason for suggesting that perhaps St. Ioannicius might have been a descendent of the Bithynian ‛Slavs’. The name is a Bulgarian word used to denote a noble or high dignitary. It appears with this meaning in the Orhon inscriptions of Mongolia and also in the early Bulgarian inscriptions in the Balkans in the ninth century (1).

(1) Vita Ioannicii, Acta Sanctorum Novembris II (Bruxellis, 1894), pp. 337-38. Summaries of the life are also to be found in P. Van den Gheyn, Un moine grec au neuvième siècle, S. Joannice Le Grand, in Études religieuses, philosophiques, historiques et littéraires, L (1890), 407-34. C. Loparev, Vizantijskija žitija svjatyh VII-IX vĕkov, in Vizant. Vrem. 9 XVIII (1911), 72-92.

The word is used by Theophanes and Constantine Porphyrogenitus when they speak of certain Bulgarian nobles. Thus Theophanes speaks of the βοϊλάδων (nobles) who accompanied their king to an audience with Constantine V in 748 (2). The family name Boilas, which became prominent in Byzantium, is most probably related to this Bulgarian word signifying a high dignitary or noble, and which seems even to have been used as a proper name. Ioannicius is the earliest person to appear bearing this name in the Byzantine sources (3).

The saint came from the village of Marykatos in Bithynia (Βιθννῶν ἐπαρχίας) located on the north shore of Lake Apollonias near the town of Miletopolis (4). In 773, at the age of nineteen, he was enrolled in the eighteenth bandon of the imperial excubitores and remained in the army until some time around 795, when he sought refuge in the monastic life of Mt. Olympus (1).

(1) This fact is noted by the editor of the Vita Io., p. 339 ; « Genus Boiladum apud Bulgaros désignât duces et optimates ». And he further comments ; « At quomodo S. Ioannicio, humili loco nato, haec appellatio conveniat non liquet. Forsan familiam quandam designare voluerit Sabas ». On this word see

· G. Moravcsik, Byzantinoturcica, II2 (1958), 93-4 ;
· W. Radloff, Die alttürkischen Inschriften der Mongolei (St. Petersburg, 1894), p. 140 ;
· F. Miklosich, Lexicon Palaeoslovenico-Graeco-Latinum (Vienna, 1862), 50 ;
· W. Thomsen, Alttürkische Inschriften aus der Mongolei in Zeitschrift der deutschen Morgenländischen Gesellschaft, LXXVIII (1924), 171.

See also the long book review of Papademetriou, in Vizant. Vrem., V (1898), 717, who noted its non-Greek origin. [Voir aussi Beševliev-Grégoire, Les inscriptions protobulgares, dans Byzantion, XXVIII (1958), pp. 307 sq. N.d.l.R.].

(2) Theophanes, Chronographia, ed. C. de Boor, I (Leipzig, 1883), 436, 447. Constantine Porphyrogenitus, De Ceremoniis Aulae Byzantinae, ed. J. Reiske and I. Bekker (Bonn, 1829), 681, mentions the six great βολιάδες at the Bulgarian court, and the ἔσω and ἔξω βολιάδες below them. In De Administrando Imperio, ed. G. Moravcsik (Budapest, 1949), p. 154, he mentions the twelve great βοϊλάδων. There are various spellings of the name ; Βόϊλας, Βοΐλας, Βόηλας ; Moravcsik, Byzantinoturcica, II2, 94.

(3) For later members of the Boilas family, or at least bearers of this name, see S. Vryonis, The Will of a Provincial Magnate, Eustathius Boilas (1059), in Dumbarton Oaks Papers, XI (1957), 273.

(4) Vita Io., p. 335. See the map in W. Ramsay, The Historical Geography of Asia Minor (London, 1890), opposite p. 178.

As is well known, Justinian II, after his campaign of 688/9 in the Balkans, transplanted Bulgars from the Balkans into Asia Minor. They were transported via the town of Abydos and then settled in the Opsikion theme as soldiers (2).

The information furnished by the Vita, in combination with what little we know about the settlement of ‛Slavs’ in Bithynia, would suggest that St. Ioannicius was a descendent of the Bulgars settled as soldiers in the Opsikion theme by the Byzantines during the seventh century, possibly by Justinian shortly after 688/9. His family name, Boilas, is Bulgarian. His village, Marykatos, located in Bithynia near Lake Apollonias, was in the general area of Slav settlement. As a matter of fact it was directly in the line of march for the Bulgars brought over by Justinian II through Abydos. And his profession, that of soldier for twenty-four years, is consonant with the fact that the emperor intended to use these Bulgars in the armies.

If we can accept the above conclusion, that St. Ioannicius was a descendent of the Bulgars brought into Asia Minor in the seventh century, then we have an interesting example of a ‛Slav’ who had been Byzantinized. His parents were already Christians, as their names, Anastaso and Myritzikos (diminutive of myrh), testify, and Ioannicius became the very picture of the pious Byzantine monk (3).
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