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Old 12-25-2015, 05:13 PM   #71
Amphipolis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redsun View Post

These pictures seem incompatible,

Statement from video “There’s substantial contingents of Greek soldiers and Bulgarian soldiers roaming the city and when you look down over the city from the fort at the top down to the bay…”

5.50 – 5.59 Two pictures depict the city landscape, the shape and architecture of the buildings. Some pictures throughout the film depict buildings that don’t appear to have any similarities to the buildings captured in the overall landscape pictures taken from the fort. How can it be certain that these are pictures of Salon.
I’m Thessalonian and I can assure you this is Thessaloniki (in 5:50) as seen from Upper Town (Ano Poli). This is the modern view, from the closest location I could find online.



At the time of the video Thessaloniki was in a transient phase, controlled by the Balkan League, so there were Greek and Bulgarian soldiers, probably even Turkish policemen for a while.

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Originally Posted by Redsun View Post
The population of Greece is heterogeneous.

In the time period we discuss. Why couldn’t an “ethnic Macedonian” or “ethnic anything” enter a heterogeneous Church that was open to all racial backgrounds?

How can you be so certain?

Greece adopted a heterogeneous population from the Ottoman empire.

The Ottomans identified nationality with religion. The Greek government adopted the Ottoman perspective on "nationality."

Statement from video “The Empire was not interested in Ethnicity, it ruled by allowing different religious communities a high degree of autonomy and self government.”
During Ottoman Empire, religion was not just a matter of identity or political alliance. Being a Christian meant that you paid your taxes to your Church, Church was responsible for your Education, Health and probably some issues of Justice. Also, Muslims, Christians and Jews were somehow A, B and C class subjects (We can’t use the word citizens) and had different legal rights and obligations.

After the 1880s the Christian Orthodox Church in Ottoman Empire broke into three ethnic Churches.



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Last edited by Amphipolis; 12-26-2015 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:41 PM   #72
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If solun was greek why go in on the pretext to liberate it for themselves.Solun was a macedonian city with a macedonian name.
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Old 12-27-2015, 05:14 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Why alter the name if it was greek.Also why deport the population and take in greek turks simply to alter the demographics.Why change the name to greek thesdaloniki if it was called solun.solun the place in the sun.
Yes the greeks tried to give the place a greek slant.THere is the macedonian version.
So in post#58 you think Solun is the original name of the city and the Greeks changed it to Thessaloniki. (Solun the place in the sun, give me a break)

Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Amphipolis you are totally wrong.Solun was the original macedonian name not thessaloniki.Your brand of history simply ignores the existence of the macedonian people.
If it was all greek why deny the macedonians who were called endopi the original settlers.Allso why the need to change the name from solun to thessaloniki??
In post #62 you insist Solun was the original name that was altered. Also, the city was stolen by Greeks.

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Originally Posted by George S. View Post
The alternative name was solun.The macedonians preffered that to thessaloniki.
"""After the fall of the kingdom of Macedon in 168 BC, Thessalonica became a free city of the Roman Republic under Mark Antony in 41 BC.[21][23] It grew to be an important trade-hub located on the Via Egnatia,[24] the road connecting Dyrrhachium with Byzantium,[25] which facilitated trade between Thessaloniki and great centers of commerce such as Rome and Byzantium.[26] Thessaloniki also lay at the southern end of the main north-south route through the Balkans along the valleys of the Morava and Axios river valleys, thereby linking the Balkans with the rest of Greece.[27] The city later became the capital of one of the four Roman districts of Macedonia.[24] Later it became the capital of all the Greek provinces of the Roman Empire because of the city's importance in the Balkan peninsula."""
THere is a distinction in roman times and prior tp that it wasnt greek.Macedonians would have retained greek if they were greek but they weren't.The greeks sometimes wrote their version of history 100's of years later.
Yes you are missing something its either greek or it isnt .Are we just assuming that greek is macedonian.???
In post#64, thanks to Wikipedia you discover the city’s history and who the sister of Alexander was. Now, Thessaloniki becomes a Macedonian name. Or is it a Greek one? You’re still undecided at that point.

You can use google maps to find where Thessaloniki is.

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Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Ha what a joke you are quoting from a greek written bible their version.of events.You say its all greek why would the apostle visit two seperate countries macedonia and greece.Macedonia accepted the christian message the greeks it says didnt as they beleived their myths.Thats all there is to it you called everything os and you called thessaloniki because it was your version.
At this point you’re wondering if New Testament was written in Greek or there’s a Greek version of it. Well, the original (Epistle to Thessalonians) calls them Macedonia and Achaea (not Macedonia and Greece). They’re not two separate countries, but they are indeed two Roman Provinces.

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Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Amphipolis you are just claiming that solun was allways yours you simply change the name back that is bullshit.
We’re not sure what that says.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Mak View Post
You probably read it in this thread: Who are the Slavs? - Citations and Sources , in one of SoM's posts, here's a direct link to the post.

Ceлyнeнинa=Selunenina

The early Slavonic text in question is "Life of Methodius" (Vita Methodii) written by Saint Clement of Ohrid.

***
That’s very interesting, if not important and widely unknown. We can pass it to Wikipedia, BUT:

Are we sure it is correct? A google search provides only a couple of results.
Also, does Solun also appear in Slavonic texts of the time? If not, can we find its’ earliest appearance?

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Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Calling your self “Alexander” does not make you “Alexander” the Great, just because you happen to exist in Macedonia.
Very well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
The word “Solun” is an “evolved” word. It comes from the word “Thesaloniki”, a word that was coined by Philip II, a Macedonian King who named his daughter after a victory he won in Thessaly. Later, King Kasander, another Macedonian King, founded, built and named Solun “Thesaloniki”, after his wife, and yes, Philip II’s daughter. But, after many years and many occupants we have: Thesaloniki –> Thesalonika –> Salonika –> Solun
At last, at post#70 Thessaloniki is recognized as the original name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Only the modern Greeks call Solun “Thesaloniki”, everyone else calls it either Salonika or Solun.
Are you sure? Thessaloniki appears as such in the entire ancient, late ancient, early-middle and late medieval literature and of course the recent centuries. Poems, novels, historical and various texts from all these periods mention it and dozens of persons are known with the nickname “o Thessaloniceus” (the Thessalonian) from all the centuries in between. We all know about Thessaloniki, your job should be to tell us something about Solun.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damon_of_Thessalonica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigonus_of_Thessalonica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arista...f_Thessalonica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipater_of_Thessalonica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippus_of_Thessalonica
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_Thessaloniki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...f_Thessalonica

Solun (Serbian, Bulgarian), Selanik (Turkish), Salonicco (Italian) etc are all exonyms. Distortions of the original name by foreigners who could not pronounce or understand the name.

Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
Solun is a Macedonian city, founded and cared for by Macedonians. We are Macedonians and it is our city.
Exactly, now that you want to call yourselves Macedonian, everything that is REALLY Macedonian should belong to you, shouldn’t it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by George S. View Post
IT IS A MACEDONIAN CITY with an evolved name which today we like to call SOLUN.
Gee, no problem with that, as it strengthens the Greek position.


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Last edited by Amphipolis; 12-27-2015 at 05:22 AM.
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:42 PM   #74
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Amph Ipolis you m Issed my point that thessalonika salonica.solun is a macedonian c ity not greek.
Where dies it say it was a greek city.Dont forget the gteeks had a way of helenising names of things.
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Old 12-28-2015, 07:28 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post


At this point you’re wondering if New Testament was written in Greek or there’s a Greek version of it. Well, the original (Epistle to Thessalonians) calls them Macedonia and Achaea (not Macedonia and Greece). They’re not two separate countries, but they are indeed two Roman Provinces.


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Amphipois, judging by the form you greeks show I am surprised you don't claim St Paul the Apostle a Greek.

Also Solun, Salonica, Thessalonika are all versions of the same thing. The name of a place changing over time.

Your modern greek state has a lot to do with the changes made in the last 100 to 200 years rather than a connection to the forbearers.

Also the new testament goes against the modern day rhetoric of greece.

Eg.

.....Returning to Antioch, Saint Paul in the company of Silas undertook his second missionary journey. At first he visited the churches that he had founded earlier in Asia Minor, and then crossed over to Macedonia, where he founded congregations in Philippi, Thessalonica, and Berea. In Lystra, Saint Paul gained his favourite pupil Timothy, and from Troas he continued the journey with the recently joined Apostle Luke. From Macedonia saint Paul crossed over into Greece, where he preached in Athens and Corinth, remaining in the latter city for one and a half years. His 2 Epistles to the Thessalonians was sent from here. The second journey lasted from 51 to 54 AD. In 55 AD Saint Paul left for Jerusalem, visiting Ephesus and Caeseria on the way and from Jerusalem, went to Antioch (Acts 17 and 18.)......

Provinces or not the New Testament shows how Macedonia was a region separate from Greece.
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Old 12-28-2015, 08:30 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Stojacanec View Post
Amphipois, judging by the form you greeks show I am surprised you don't claim St Paul the Apostle a Greek.
That's because he wasn't. Also his Greek is considered poor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stojacanec View Post
Also Solun, Salonica, Thessalonika are all versions of the same thing. The name of a place changing over time.

Your modern greek state has a lot to do with the changes made in the last 100 to 200 years rather than a connection to the forbearers.
From a Greek point-of-view the name of the city never changed. For instance, the local Church was Greek speaking and always used the name Thessaloniki.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stojacanec View Post
Also the new testament goes against the modern day rhetoric of greece.

Eg.

.....Returning to Antioch, Saint Paul in the company of Silas undertook his second missionary journey. At first he visited the churches that he had founded earlier in Asia Minor, and then crossed over to Macedonia, where he founded congregations in Philippi, Thessalonica, and Berea. In Lystra, Saint Paul gained his favourite pupil Timothy, and from Troas he continued the journey with the recently joined Apostle Luke. From Macedonia saint Paul crossed over into Greece, where he preached in Athens and Corinth, remaining in the latter city for one and a half years. His 2 Epistles to the Thessalonians was sent from here. The second journey lasted from 51 to 54 AD. In 55 AD Saint Paul left for Jerusalem, visiting Ephesus and Caeseria on the way and from Jerusalem, went to Antioch (Acts 17 and 18.)......

Provinces or not the New Testament shows how Macedonia was a region separate from Greece.
Be careful. Your quote is not from the Bible (I don't know where it is from). The text of Acts of the Apostoles (in chapters 17 & 18) also uses the names Macedonia and Achaea in what you translate as Macedonia and Greece.


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Old 12-28-2015, 09:23 AM   #77
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Aphipolis the jury is still out whether there was a greece country in th past.It was a bunch of warring states and known as athenians,corinthians etc hardly a greece.At one point you had attic greeks,then hellenes,then romaoi yes they thpught themselves as romans.THe word greece was coined back in the 1700 from latin.Then greece wssnt a vountry until 1832.Created by the powers that be.SO its along bow to be claiminh that onr race of people is ano ther race of people.The hidden agenda is to cover up the fact of gteece taking macedonia.
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Old 12-28-2015, 09:26 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Amphipolis View Post
That's because he wasn't. Also his Greek is considered poor.
Very true.

But he wrote in Koine Greek. And adopted the name "Paulos", in place of Saul.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amphipolis
Be careful. Your quote is not from the Bible (I don't know where it is from). The text of Acts of the Apostoles (in chapters 17 & 18) also uses the names Macedonia and Achaea in what you translate as Macedonia and Greece.


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The exact quote:

Acts 20.1-2

Quote:
And after the uproar was ceased, Paul called unto him the disciples, and embraced them, and departed for to go into Macedonia. And when he had gone over those parts, and had given them much exhortation, he came into Greece [Hellas].
Clearly, this implies Macedonia was outside of Hellas. Now you may challenge this in terms of Roman redistricting, but it is very consistent with Herodotus' writings, which place Macedonia geographically outside of Hellas.

Moreover, the phrase Macedonia and Achaia does not imply a unified territory, but two separate territories. Achaia was the land of the Achaius, a classic name of south coast of the Gulf of Corinth, and sometimes used as a general name of Hellas.
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Old 12-28-2015, 11:52 AM   #79
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Very true.

But he wrote in Koine Greek. And adopted the name "Paulos", in place of Saul.
Paulus is a Roman (Latin) name, not a Greek one.

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Originally Posted by Philosopher View Post
The exact quote:

Acts 20.1-2
This one DOES say Hellas. The phrasing is too complicated, probably Hellas identifies to Achaea. Most maps for Apostles times look like this (Macedonia includes Thessaly, sometimes Epirus does not exist), though names and borders of Roman provinces may have changed several times.



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Old 12-28-2015, 12:24 PM   #80
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You ignore the fact thesaloniki,thessalonika,salonika , was a macefonian city how can you claim thats greek.I Cant see that greeks and macedonians were the same p dople.THe name really has evolved. You cant say it belongef to greece it di dnt you simply t ook wgat doe s not b ljelong to you.solun was a ma cedonian city not gteek.
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