Markos Botsaris = Marko Boçari = Марко Бочар?

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  • TrueMacedonian
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3810

    #16
    Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
    Carlin - Ali Pasha singled out Souliotes from Arvanites because they were a more hellenized group politically and culturally.
    Lol ok are we really serious here? You tell me what’s wrong with this post and really consider what you write next time. “Hellenized”? Lol, really now. Where in the world were these hellenes?
    Slayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!

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    • Amphipolis
      Banned
      • Aug 2014
      • 1328

      #17
      Originally posted by xhondoe View Post
      When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?"

      His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".

      Zaharias Papantoniou, "King Otto"
      By the way, this is a fake story and reference. I can't find who really first forged this, but as early as 2010 a man with the username CAKIMacedonian in Total War Center Forum writes this:


      This is for you..let we laugh now......hhhh
      -In the memories of prince Otto, Prince of Bavaria and first king of Greece, when he first time arrived in Athena and Peloponnesus, he said: "These are completely different people than we expected. We expected to find some ancient people, but we found only immigrants from Africa. "
      "When King Otto of Greece came in Greece in 1830, he hardly heard anyone speak in Greek and so he asked: "Where are the Greeks in Athens?" His court looked at each other and answered: "There are no Greeks, but do not be troubled because this Albanian population will always be faithful to your monarchy".
      King Otto, Zaharias Papantoniou
      ahhhha aahhhhaaa where were your ancestors man...hhhh!!!!


      By the way King Otto didn't write memoirs either.

      Comment

      • tchaiku
        Member
        • Nov 2016
        • 786

        #18
        Originally posted by TrueMacedonian View Post
        Lol ok are we really serious here? You tell me what’s wrong with this post and really consider what you write next time. “Hellenized”? Lol, really now. Where in the world were these hellenes?
        Hellenes were assimilated before the Dark Ages. ''Hellenized'', in modern sense, refers to becoming a modern Greek. Souliotes were Albanians who spoke bilingually Greek and considered themselves Romaioi.
        They were a very war-like people, they would kill anyone who converts to Islam from their group, including kids.

        Comment

        • sydney
          Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 390

          #19
          A piece of historical fiction from Vassilis Nitsiakos’s Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/bnitsiak/

          FANTASTIC DIALOGUE WITH MARKOS BOTSARIS
          - Marco Good Morning. I write to you so many years later, etc because I have questions that concern you unanswered...
          - Tell me what it is you want to know
          - Let me tell you first that I admire you, you are my favorite hero. And I think that in the pantheon of Greek heroes you are one of the top... Some time ago we made a documentary with an English director about the Souliotes. We disagreed about their identity and I was forced to withdraw my signature because of this event
          - What was your argument?
          - He supported the view that you are Albanians and that the conflict between you Souliotes and Ali Pasha was an intra-Albanian conflict...
          - What, he said so? Look at this patriot. First we are Christian Orthodox and he is a Muslim. We Romioi and he is a Mohamethan. We called these Turks. I don't understand about ′′ intra-Albanian conflict ". This was a Mohamethan pass of satrapis, who didn't tolerate our own independent life, our resistance to our own conquering views. We wanted to be free and self-exous...
          - Marco, I supported the opinion that you are in the majority of Arvanites, who, since you had a national conscience, was Greek. Did I do right or wrong?
          - What I know and I want to tell you is that we were talking Arvanitika to each other but at least the men knew Roman too. We wanted our freedom and we fought not only for ourselves but for the whole of Romiosíni. We all, Arvanites, graics and other Christian Orthodox united by common faith and struggle against the conquerors.
          - You, Marco, wrote a Roman-Arvanitiko dictionary. Why did you do that? For what purpose?
          - I did this so all our people would learn Roman, because, like I told you, not everyone knew.
          - And why would they learn Roman?
          - Because this was the official language, the language of educated people, the language of letters. Even Ali Pasha used this and had Roman grammar and other scientists in his yard. When we made our own state, this is the language we would have... the arvanitika were not written, there was nothing written of poems, to say, literature.... it was a homemade speech and for each other, how can I explain it to you....
          - Marco, if Ali managed to make his own state, Roman Albanian, what would you do?
          - We would fight for our country and for Christianity, for the Roman...
          - I notice that you don't say Greek and you say Roman...
          - That's what we used to say back then. It was you see the Roman millet, recognized by the Sultan led by the Patriarch of Constantinople. This is how all Orthodox were one....
          - Now we say Greek and we all call ourselves Greeks...
          - I don't know... This may be better, because it unites us with the ancient ones and puts us all under such an umbrella, so that there are no breeds and tribes special from here and there but all Greeks...
          - Marco, I guess you learned what happened after your death...
          - I don't have an update down here but I would be happy if Suli and Souliotes exist second and Romiosyni is all united and strong...

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            #20
            "The case of Marko Bozzaris is another (and more recent) example. He was an important leader in the Greek struggle for freedom, is a national hero of the Greeks, claimed also by the Bulgarians and Albanians, though it is known that his parents spoke the Vlach language [See this in Walter Kolarz (1946:33). Marko Bozzaris was also the author of a Greek-Albanian dictionary and his wife, it appears, could only speak "Albanian" and "Bulgarian".]"

            -- Pages 75 & 76, Memory, Identity, Typology: An Interdisciplinary Reconstruction of Vlach Ethnohistory, by Gheorghe Bogdan (BA, University of British Columbia, 1992).

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            • Amphipolis
              Banned
              • Aug 2014
              • 1328

              #21
              Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
              "The case of Marko Bozzaris is another (and more recent) example. He was an important leader in the Greek struggle for freedom, is a national hero of the Greeks, claimed also by the Bulgarians and Albanians, though it is known that his parents spoke the Vlach language [See this in Walter Kolarz (1946:33). Marko Bozzaris was also the author of a Greek-Albanian dictionary and his wife, it appears, could only speak "Albanian" and "Bulgarian".]"

              -- Pages 75 & 76, Memory, Identity, Typology: An Interdisciplinary Reconstruction of Vlach Ethnohistory, by Gheorghe Bogdan (BA, University of British Columbia, 1992).
              No, not Vlach, not Bulgarian, only Souliote, i.e. Arvanite. No idea what the sources are in the above text, but in this thread it has been explained enough how rediculous many of such sources are.

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              • Carlin
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2011
                • 3332

                #22
                Do we know the names of Souliote tribes/clans and common surnames?

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                • Liberator of Makedonija
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2014
                  • 1595

                  #23
                  Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                  Do we know the names of Souliote tribes/clans and common surnames?
                  They mostly had Arvanitic roots to my understanding
                  I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

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                  • Carlin
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 3332

                    #24

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