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Old 01-05-2011, 08:18 PM   #21
Akzion
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Let's return to Earth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garamantes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Athena
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heracles
and the funny part (some of Bill77 sources)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_K._G._Temple
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirius_Mystery

Last edited by Akzion; 01-05-2011 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:42 PM   #22
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Akzion
Just to demonstrate the unwritten histories of undeveloped countries, read this:-
Quote:
Most of what we know comes from Greek and Roman sources, and recent archaeological excavations in the area, though large areas in ruins are still unexcavated.
Surely you cannot be purporting to claim history is what it is according to sources you have? There is much to be discovered, disseminated and woven logically into the fabric of all history.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akzion View Post
LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians
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The name Pelasgians (Greek: Πελασγοί, Pelasgoí, singular Πελασγός, Pelasgós) was used by some ancient Greek writers to refer to populations that was either the ancestors of the Greeks or who preceded the Greeks in Greece
Thats what i am getting at all along. Greek were black if their ancestors the Pelasgians were Black.


Quote:
Using archaeological evidence and the classical literature C.A. Winters (1983b) explained how the African/Black founders of Grecian civilization originally came from the ancient Sahara. Winters(1983b) makes it clear that these Blacks came to the Aegean in two waves 1) the Garamantes a Malinke speaking people that now live along the Niger river, but formerly lived in the Fezzan region of Libya;
Quote:
These Garamante were described by the Latin classical writers as black or dark skinned: perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183).
Quote:
The Garamantes were also often called Pelasgians by some classical writers. Strabo said "that the Pelasgi, as indeed the most ancient nation, were diffused through all Greece, and especially among the Aeolians".
Quote:
Winters (1983b) makes it clear that the Garamantes founded the Greek cities of Thrace, Minoan Crete and Attica. The Garamantes were also called Carians by the Indo-European Greeks.
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According to the Greeks, the first man was Pelasgus--ancestor of the Pelasgians.
Quote:
The Pelasgians were a combination of different Black tribes called Achaeans, Cadmeans, Leleges, Carians or Garamantes.
Quote:
The Pelasgians founded many cities. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii, 402 ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes. Many of these Athenians may have introduced the Geometric style to Greece during the so-called Dark Ages (1200- 600 BC).
Quote:
As recorded by Pindar in Fragment , and Apollonius Rhodius, makes it clear that the Garamantes early colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Carians practiced apiculture. As in Africa the Carians practiced matrilineal descent. According to Herodotus , even up until his time the Carians took the name of their mother.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:40 PM   #24
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the greeks shoul accept it & eat humble cake or humble pie.ALso they should learn that they are not macedonians they claim to be .
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:06 PM   #25
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Agamoi Thytai,

Since you love Theater (going by your Avatar) here is something that would interest you. But be aware, Its not from wikipedia and i am sorry to disappoint you.


The Negro In Ancient Greece
[originally published in American Anthropologist, 50:31-44. 1948]
FRANK M. SNOWDEN, JR.
Howard University


The theatre also served to acquaint the
Greek with the Negro. It is not surprising that the
Negro became a familiar character on the Greek
stage, since he had long been known in Greek
mythology. The Negro appearing on certain
coins, according to several scholars, is Delphos,
the eponymous hero of Delphi......

The Negro, therefore, was comparatively
well known to the Greek in mythology. It is
reasonable to assume that plays which presented
these and similar myths helped, in many cases, to
familiarize the Greek with the Negroid type. The
Memnon or Aithiopes of Sophocles and possibly
the Memnon of Aeschylus had an Ethiopian
chorus.........
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:18 PM   #26
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Why would a negro connection to Greece be so hard to believe?
Look how close Africa is to Greece. I still think native languages around Libya (and nearby) should be looked at closely to find some explanation for the Non European language described today as "Greek".
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:41 PM   #27
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RTG how about the black athena.Even the name Athena is not even greek.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:45 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
Why would a negro connection to Greece be so hard to believe?Look how close Africa is to Greece.
John Lawrence Angel,a famous British-American anthropologist carried out a genetical analysis of ancient Greek skeletons in 1945 and he didn't detected any such connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lawrence_Angel
He classified the ancient Greeks into 6 distinct groups:A Basic white,B Mediterraneans,C Alpines,D Nordic Iranian,E Mixed Alpines and F Dinaric Mediterranean.He didn't find any traces of black genes:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...angeltable.jpg
http://img107.imageshack.us/i/tablejz0.jpg/
His research covered a period from 3.000 BC to 1.300 AD.
He also wrote of a genetic continuity in Greece:

"Smooth period to period change in skull measurements from third millennium BC onward reveals essential genetic continuity in Greece (Angel, '44) "
http://www.google.com/search?q=from+...A1&tbo=1&hl=el

Note also this,from the same edition of American Journal of Physical Anthropology:

"Skeletal evidence can now destroy positively the fancy that cultural efflorescence in historically critical Greece was the achievement of an inbred Nordic aristocracy".
http://www.google.com/search?q=Skele...A1&tbo=1&hl=el
Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I still think native languages around Libya (and nearby) should be looked at closely to find some explanation for the Non European language described today as "Greek".
Greek is certainly an IE language and no serious linguist ever questioned it.Had you theory been correct it wouldn't have take too much time for linguists to confirm it.
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Old 01-07-2011, 10:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill77 View Post
LOL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians

Thats what i am getting at all along. Greek were black if their ancestors the Pelasgians were Black.
Bill,i can't remember whether it was you or George.S who claimed in another thread that Pelasgians were white becaUse the name itself is connected to the Macedonian word for "white" and that ancient Macedonians were themselves of Pelasgian origin.Anyway,even if it was neither you nor George,i've seen other Macedonians claiming all the above.
Probably because most of 19th century historians who didn't consider Macedonians as Greek also claimed they were of Pelasgian stock,LOL!
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:49 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill77 View Post
Agamoi Thytai,

Since you love Theater (going by your Avatar) here is something that would interest you. But be aware, Its not from wikipedia and i am sorry to disappoint you.


The Negro In Ancient Greece
[originally published in American Anthropologist, 50:31-44. 1948]
FRANK M. SNOWDEN, JR.
Howard University


The theatre also served to acquaint the
Greek with the Negro. It is not surprising that the
Negro became a familiar character on the Greek
stage, since he had long been known in Greek
mythology. The Negro appearing on certain
coins, according to several scholars, is Delphos,
the eponymous hero of Delphi......

The Negro, therefore, was comparatively
well known to the Greek in mythology. It is
reasonable to assume that plays which presented
these and similar myths helped, in many cases, to
familiarize the Greek with the Negroid type. The
Memnon or Aithiopes of Sophocles and possibly
the Memnon of Aeschylus had an Ethiopian
chorus.........
This author was not an anthropologist,Bill:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_M._Snowden,_Jr.

I've shown to you the view of a famous anthropologist on that and here are some others too:

The famous Italian anthropologist Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Luca_Cavalli-Sforza
He says that Greeks are closely related to Italians and then to Yugoslavians (probably he made his research before the dissolotion of Yugoslavia.)
http://books.google.com/books?id=FrwNcwKaUKoC&pg=PA272

And according to a study made by Macedonian anthropologists,Greeks ahve no relation to African populations but instead they are related with other Balkan peoples,Croats,Macedonians,Romanians,Turks and Sardinians and also to French,Italians and Spaniards:

High-resolution typing of HLA-DRB1 locus in the Macedonian population

1. A. Petlichkovski,
2. O. Efinska-Mladenovska,
3. D. Trajkov,
4. T. Arsov,
5. A. Strezova,
6. M. Spiroski

Article first published online: 21 JUL 2004
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...273.x/abstract

Abstract:  The Macedonian population is of special interest for HLA anthropological study in the light of unanswered questions regarding its origin and relationship with other populations, especially the neighbouring Balkanians. Two studies have been performed to examine HLA molecular polymorphism in the Macedonian population, so far. The present study is the first to be performed in Macedonia using high-resolution sequence-based method for direct HLA typing. The study included 158 unrelated healthy volunteers of Macedonian origin and nationality, having a Christian Orthodox religion. After the simultaneous amplification of exon-2 on both HLA-DRB1 alleles, DNA sequencing was used for genotype assignment. In the 158 samples analysed, all 316 alleles were typed and a total of 29 different DRB1 alleles were detected, with DRB1*1601 being the most frequent allele (14.9%), followed by DRB1*1104 (13.9%). A phylogenetic tree constructed on the basis of the high-resolution data deriving from other populations revealed the clustering of Macedonians together with other Balkan populations (Greeks, Croats, Turks and Romanians) and Sardinians, close to another “European” cluster consisting of the Italian, French, Danish, Polish and Spanish populations. The included African populations grouped on the opposite side of the tree.

So you can't say Greeks get mixed in ancient time with black people,even if we accept Frank Snowden's view that there were Black people in ancient Greece.If there are certain instances of such mixing taking ever place,these were just trifles,not worthy at all to be mentioned as having left any significant genetic trace.It would be also too arbitrary and absurd to conclude that modern Greeks have African ancestry because few black people were once temporary residents of Greece.It's the same as if future historians would claim after 2.000 years that people of Bitola have African ancestry,because there were brought 20 negroe slaves in that city in 1859 by an Ottoman Pasha:
http://books.google.com/books?id=zdY...J&pg=RA1-PA215
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