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Old 06-06-2014, 09:33 PM   #11
Chakalarov
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I think we are going off topic here. I believe there is a thread specifically devoted to the etymology of Odyssey. I am concerned with the sources for these words that some websites claim are found in Homer's works.
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Old 06-07-2014, 10:09 AM   #12
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chak In general, "Pelasgian" has come to mean more broadly all the indigenous inhabitants of the Aegean Sea region and their cultures before the advent of the Greek language.
Homer,
The Pelasgians first appear in the poems of Homer: those who are stated to be Pelasgians in the Iliad are among the allies of Troy. In the section known as the Catalogue of Trojans, they are mentioned between mentions of the Hellespontine cities and the Thracians of south-eastern Europe (i.e., on the Hellespontine border of Thrace). Homer calls their town or district "Larisa"and characterises it as fertile, and its inhabitants as celebrated for their spearsmanship He records their chiefs as Hippothous and Pylaeus, sons of Lethus son of Teutamus, thus giving all of them names that were Greek or so thoroughly Hellenized that any foreign element has been effaced.

In the Odyssey, Odysseus, affecting to be Cretan himself, instances Pelasgians among the tribes in the ninety cities of Crete, "language mixing with language side by side".
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Old 06-08-2014, 10:03 PM   #13
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So, if Homer's works were the result of oral tradition, what exactly is Homeric Greek? Was it even used during the supposed Homer era 750 BC- 650 BC? Furthermore, if the poems were orally passed down, what dialect of Greek are they written in in the sources I mentioned in my first post?
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Old 06-09-2014, 01:35 AM   #14
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So, if Homer's works were the result of oral tradition, what exactly is Homeric Greek? Was it even used during the supposed Homer era 750 BC- 650 BC?
LOL, Uh of course it was used. While no one excludes slight changes (in time), this is not like a traditional song that changed and evolved in time and space and nobody knows how it was when it first appeared and who wrote it. These are VERY long and unique masterpieces with the stamp of one genius behind them. They can't be considered a collective work.

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Furthermore, if the poems were orally passed down, what dialect of Greek are they written in the sources I mentioned in my first post?
Homer's language is different than Greek of the classic era in the sense that:

(a) it is distant in time, being 2-3 or more centuries earlier
(b) it is not Attic, and is not a specific dialect either. It's mostly Ionic, also a lot Aeolic, plus it is considered to have elements from other dialects. These dialects were spoken in the districts surrounding Attica, in Chalkis and Thebes.
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Old 06-10-2014, 05:32 PM   #15
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ss you are looking at it from todays world not from the past even though you govt thinks it knows what happened in the past.When one looks at the arrival of the greeks on the greek peninsular it didn't have an alphabet or language.It got that after 800 bc.Prior to that you talk of linear A OR B that is not an alphabet or language.Just remember the alphabet came from the phonecian seafarers.It didn't just pop up it was adopted. by the greeks.How about the art of Hellenising of using ous on names etc putting a greek slant.Doing that doesn't make it greek.Its a greek view by a greek.WE are all entitled to our views lets agree to disagree.Its all to do with the greekness of Macedonia.We know the greek feelings on that don't we??Propaganda works on people's ignorance of not knowing the full truth.You are going to tell us that your govt doesn't lie.Pigs can fly??
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:30 AM   #16
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When one looks at the arrival of the greeks on the greek peninsular it didn't have an alphabet or language.It got that after 800 bc.Prior to that you talk of linear A OR B that is not an alphabet or language.Just remember the alphabet came from the phonecian seafarers.It didn't just pop up it was adopted. by the greeks.
There are various theories on how and when Greeks were formed (this was a long process in the late 2000s BC or throughout 1000s BC until the first Olympic Games in 776 BC). You can read some of them here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenes#Origins
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:46 AM   #17
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There are various theories on how and when Greeks were formed
1830 I believe.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:53 AM   #18
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how do you explain the greekness of the pelasgians(pelasgian in ancient Macedonian means white face).The greeks considered the pelasgians as BARBARIC.So how do you know that they were greek when they didn't speak greek.THEY SPOKE PELASGIAN WHICH WAS NON GREEK.How do you explain that.You say you a realted to the myceneans when their language is different to greek.Prior to the greeeks arrival these people existed and had proto Slavic words.As I said before the illiad was written in the pelasgian language.Then it was translated to greek hence there are no admissions of Slavic words in the illiad.We have today a complete denial unless we have access to the original texts.
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Old 06-11-2014, 05:58 AM   #19
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so Greece became a country in 1832.Do you realize at one point the greeks called themselves romaoi romans.It ciant decide wha it is.Today they call themselves Macedonian.We know they are not.Also as part of the division of 1913 of Macedonia to 4 countries,they all have their particular brand of propaganda.Denial of Macedonian existence.
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Old 06-11-2014, 08:15 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
1830 I believe.
Funny, how the best theories are not in Wikipedia.

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how do you explain the greekness of the pelasgians(pelasgian in ancient Macedonian means white face).The greeks considered the pelasgians as BARBARIC.So how do you know that they were greek when they didn't speak greek.THEY SPOKE PELASGIAN WHICH WAS NON GREEK.How do you explain that.You say you a realted to the myceneans when their language is different to greek.Prior to the greeeks arrival these people existed and had proto Slavic words.As I said before the illiad was written in the pelasgian language.Then it was translated to greek hence there are no admissions of Slavic words in the illiad.We have today a complete denial unless we have access to the original texts.
Pelasgian does not mean “white face” in Ancient Macedonian. I can’t find this theory in Wikipedia either. You just pulled that out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelasgians#Etymology

Also, Pelasgians didn’t have Proto-Slavic words. Which words do you mean, by the way?

Homeric works are… very long poems of great poetic value and substance written in hexameter. They can’t be a translation from a foreign language. Nevertheless, the details, the origins of the myths and many other related aspects are simply lost in the past. They were unknown at the time of classical Greece, so we can’t even hope for a huge archaeological discovery of survived earlier or alternate forms of Homer.

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so Greece became a country in 1832.Do you realize at one point the greeks called themselves romaoi romans.It ciant decide wha it is.Today they call themselves Macedonian.We know they are not.Also as part of the division of 1913 of Macedonia to 4 countries,they all have their particular brand of propaganda.Denial of Macedonian existence.
Roman was a synonym to Greek (due to the Roman Empire). Macedonian isn’t. Greeks call themselves Macedonian when they are ones (like me for instance) or Cretans when they are ones, etc.


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