Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Exposing Lies and Propaganda

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-28-2011, 05:52 AM   #11
makedonin
Senior Member
 
makedonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,668
makedonin is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daskalot View Post
Ok good to know, do you still have the original Makedonin?
Unfortunately the original is long gone too... најверојатно сам го изгубил при селење.
__________________
To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.
makedonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 05:57 AM   #12
Daskalot
Senior Member
 
Daskalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In a Library
Posts: 4,359
Daskalot is on a distinguished road
Default

Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side
__________________
Macedonian Truth Organisation
Daskalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 06:04 AM   #13
makedonin
Senior Member
 
makedonin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,668
makedonin is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daskalot View Post
Ok, lets see what we can find out, remember time is on our side
Till date I haven't found any online sources for that immigrant Paper. It was distributed through a network here in Germany, but most probably printed elsewhere. I have lost contact to the people that were distributors due to shift of place of living.

But hey, time is on our side maybe some day...
__________________
To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.
makedonin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2011, 03:17 PM   #14
Voltron
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
Voltron is on a distinguished road
Default

There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do not share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek interest in us."

The word "not" is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek indifference to us". Not "interest" in us.

The correct translation is below:

"Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom we have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest of against Greek indifference to us."

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.

Last edited by Voltron; 06-28-2011 at 03:23 PM.
Voltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 12:58 AM   #15
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 12,997
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron
Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.
If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 01:13 AM   #16
Stojacanec
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 792
Stojacanec is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do not share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek interest in us."

The word "not" is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek indifference to us". Not "interest" in us.

The correct translation is below:

"Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom we have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest of against Greek indifference to us."

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.
It seems Karev was not very trusting of the Bulgarians. He didn't say he trusted the Greeks either. It is clear he wanted an autonomous Macedonia where anybody that helped being Greek, Bulgarian or other, would get gratitude only.
Stojacanec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 01:15 AM   #17
Daskalot
Senior Member
 
Daskalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In a Library
Posts: 4,359
Daskalot is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
There is a wrong translation on the second page of the english version. 4th bottom paragraph from the right top. It says:

"Whatever kind of watering, it refreshes us and has forced us to turn our branches to that side which, we admit we have nothing in common, and to run from you with which we do not share the same blood and history. This is in some way a protest against Greek interest in us."

The word "not" is wrong. Its not included in the original text. Also the last sentence should say "This is in some way a protest against Greek indifference to us". Not "interest" in us.

The correct translation is below:

"Whatever watering it may be, it refreshes us and made us turn our branches towards that place which I confess nothing unites us (Bulgarians) and to leave you whom we have one blood and one history. This is some way a protest of against Greek indifference to us."

Now reading this interview I cant help but notice that Karev was looking for Greek support. His argument is that he was forced to side with the Bulgarians since Greek support was nonexistant.
Your translation above is not that understandable, where did you get the '(Bulgarians)' part from? Is it in the text?
Voltron, did he say that he was a Macedonian?
Isn't it funny that the only instances you found are those two?
__________________
Macedonian Truth Organisation
Daskalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 03:27 AM   #18
Voltron
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
Voltron is on a distinguished road
Default

No, but when he said that " our branches go towards the side that refreshes us even though nothing unites us " he obviously meant the Bulgarians. At least thats how I read it.

Also, I wasnt looking to point holes in the text, im just telling you the correct translation. The correct translation completely changes the meaning of how its written in English. According to the original text, Karev feels that he shares a common heritage with the Greeks. "Same blood, same history". I didnt say that, he did.

Now if what he said was posturing for support is a different debate which we'll never know the truth. But if he really believed that then I think its really significant in how perceptions change over time.
Voltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 03:32 AM   #19
Voltron
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,363
Voltron is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
If you read it a little more carefully you will also notice that he says even if a Turk offers his hand to save us, we will grab it with gratitude. The whole point was Macedonian independence - Greeks, Bulgars, Turks, etc were only a means to an end.
Yes, but I think he was really looking for support from the Greeks.
Albeit he was willing to accept support from wherever it came from but I think he was ultimatly bothered by the Greek indifference to the cause. He mentions it too at the last part where he says " This is some way a protest against Greek indifference to us ".
Voltron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2011, 05:37 AM   #20
Daskalot
Senior Member
 
Daskalot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: In a Library
Posts: 4,359
Daskalot is on a distinguished road
Default

So Voltron does this change the fact that he is a Macedonian? And this is noted in a Greek source even. Do you remember when your compatriots claimed this document to be a fake, I am talking about the English version. Don't they look stupid now? When we have the original to support it.
__________________
Macedonian Truth Organisation
Daskalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
1903, interview, ion dragoumis, nikola karev, ta tetradia tou ilinten


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump