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Old 04-23-2018, 11:20 PM   #21
Liberator of Makedonija
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post


1)


"Писмо до Јован Јовичевиќ од септември 1923 г.", "СŤ за Македонија"

"Почитуван господине,

Вашиот план за една југословенска федеративна република не само што не е необичаен туку и е многу разумен. Што има подобро од тоа - Црна Гора, Босна, Хрватска, Словенија, Банат, Србија, Македонија, Бугарија - да формираат една федеративна република. Така би се создала една голема држава од албанските планини до Црно Море и од Трст до Солун. Кон таа федерација доброволно и по потреба, би се присоединиле и Грција, и Албанија, па и Романија, иако несловенски земји, па таа би се проширила до општобалканска федерација. Ние особено сметаме на тоа бидејќи во Македонија, нашата татковина, освен Бугари, живеат и Грци, и Турци, и Албанци, и Власи, па кога таа ќе биде самоуправна политичка единица во федерацијата, ќе може да се уреди така за сите споменати народности да имаат исти и еднакви права.

Ние, македонските Бугари, многу страдавме и страдаме, та не сакаме ниту еден друг народ, колку и да е мал, да страда.

Меѓутоа, наивност е да се мисли дека кралот Александар и кликата околу него од офицери, политичари и професори ќе го прифатат доброволно Вашиот план. Тие, кои посегнаа подмолно врз независноста на јуначка Црна Гора која, единствена од христијанските земји на полуостровот, не ѝ се потчини на големата Отоманска Империја - тие империјалисти братоубијци никогаш доброволно нема да се откажат од своето владеење и од својот престапен пансрбизам..."


2)
Тодор Александров - "Мемоар од ЦК на ВМРО до Друштвото на народите од октомври 1922 г.", "Се за Македонија: Документи : 1919-1924", 2005 година

"Господине претседателе на Советот,

Македонија ги има следниве природни граници: на исток реката Места и планината Родопи; на север масивите на Рила планините Осогово, Скопска Црна Гора и Шар; на запад албанските планини и реката Црн Дрим, на југ река Бистрица и Егејско Море. Таа има население од 2.301.767 души, распределени вака: Бугари - 1.096.376 или 48% од целото население; Турци - 541.615 - 23%; Албанци - 184.315 - 8%; Власи - 77.365 -3.4%; Цигани - 43.370 -1,6%; Евреи и други етнички групи 106.360 - 5%.

Македонија е разделена меѓу Грција, Србија и Бугарија. Но таа поделба е сосема случајна и вештачка. Долните теченија на реките Места, Струма и Вардар, кои ги следат главните патишта што водат од континентот до морето, се наоѓаат во границите на Грција; нивните горни и средни теченија се во Бугарија и Србија. Оттука доаѓа и економското назадување на градовите во крајбрежните и во внатрешните области, кога ќе се додаде и немањето сигурност кое се должи на омразата што ги дели управувачите и управуваните, може да се разбере зошто мизеријата на населението се зголемува. Деведесет проценти од населението на Македонија, кое ги вклучува Бугарите, Турците, Албанците, Власите и Евреите, е против таа поделба од причини што ги изложивме погоре. Тоа се придружува енергично кон својот стар идеал, да се формира една независна Македонија, ставена под заштита на Друштвото на народите или на некоја сила ополномоштена од него. Во случај некој да се сомнева во желбата на македонското население, може да се пристапи кон плебисцит."


3)





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Old 07-17-2018, 11:19 PM   #22
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The grave of Aleksandrov, don't see any Bulgarian flags or references to Bulgaria.

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Old 09-17-2018, 10:25 AM   #23
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Would still like to hear others thoughts on what Carlin posted in which it states Aleksandrov referred to Macedonians are "Bulgarians".
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Old 10-17-2018, 04:52 AM   #24
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Anyone know anything about this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...y_Organization
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Old 11-05-2018, 11:39 PM   #25
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R.A. Reiss claims whilst Todor Aleksandrov was in Vardar Macedonia as a part of the Bulgarian occupation force, he never once promoted the idea of an autonomous Macedonia and instead proclaimed his desire to annex the region (along with Old Serbia) to Bulgaria. Reiss claims Aleksandrov only begun to promot autonomist ideals following the conclusion of the war.

Reiss also states that Aleksandrov was wanted for war crimes which included massacres of civilians and rape.
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Old 04-09-2019, 11:07 AM   #26
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So much conflicting information that itís tough to come to a conclusion about controversial figures like this. Iíve tried researching a bit more after Next Time released their rendition of Nesto Ke te Pitam Babo and think that for what itís worth Aleksandrov should be celebrated as a Macedonian hero, but Iím still not sure about his links to Bulgaria/Bulgarianism. I mean would you put him on the same status as Delcev, Gruev, Sandanski e.t.c?
I feel I need to still look in a bit more and go through some books I have that might mention him.
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Old 04-09-2019, 02:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
So much conflicting information that itís tough to come to a conclusion about controversial figures like this. Iíve tried researching a bit more after Next Time released their rendition of Nesto Ke te Pitam Babo and think that for what itís worth Aleksandrov should be celebrated as a Macedonian hero, but Iím still not sure about his links to Bulgaria/Bulgarianism. I mean would you put him on the same status as Delcev, Gruev, Sandanski e.t.c?
I feel I need to still look in a bit more and go through some books I have that might mention him.
I would say that he does have a place in Macedonian histography, but not necessarily as a hero and definitely not on the same status as Delcev, Gruev, Sandanski, Misirkov, or even Boris Sarafov for that matter. It is quite clear that Aleksandrov found himself on the opposite side of many of those Macedonians who advocated for a separate and distinct Macedonian identity, for whatever his reasons, and that this eventually harmed the Macedonian movement more than it helped it.

I think many Macedonians are trying to establish him as a national hero because he is associated with the resurrection of IMRO's armed struggle, especially against the Serbian and Greek regimes. During that time, many of the "pro-Macedonian identity" Macedonians were advocating non-violent methods, or were associated with the communists -- which in the context of events unfolding in Macedonia today (eg. SDS is in power and they are anti-nationalists and are destroying the Macedonian identity (whereas in the late 19th and early 20th century it was the socialists and communists who promoted and defended the uniqueness of the Macedonian identity), and the Macedonian population today in general is passive and apathetic when Macedonians need to show some movement and action to defend their nation), I can see why there is a growing trend to embrace Aleksandrov. But I don't think these are good reasons to turn Aleksandrov's legacy into one on par with Delcev and Sandanski.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:36 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
R.A. Reiss claims whilst Todor Aleksandrov was in Vardar Macedonia as a part of the Bulgarian occupation force, he never once promoted the idea of an autonomous Macedonia and instead proclaimed his desire to annex the region (along with Old Serbia) to Bulgaria. Reiss claims Aleksandrov only begun to promot autonomist ideals following the conclusion of the war.

Reiss also states that Aleksandrov was wanted for war crimes which included massacres of civilians and rape.
Reiss was a staunch Serbophile and for a large part of his life he he was dedicated in promoting Serbianism.

One of his requests before he died was his heart to be buried at the Kajmakčalan peak.
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:44 PM   #29
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I would say that he does have a place in Macedonian histography, but not necessarily as a hero and definitely not on the same status as Delcev, Gruev, Sandanski, Misirkov, or even Boris Sarafov for that matter. It is quite clear that Aleksandrov found himself on the opposite side of many of those Macedonians who advocated for a separate and distinct Macedonian identity, for whatever his reasons, and that this eventually harmed the Macedonian movement more than it helped it.

I think many Macedonians are trying to establish him as a national hero because he is associated with the resurrection of IMRO's armed struggle, especially against the Serbian and Greek regimes. During that time, many of the "pro-Macedonian identity" Macedonians were advocating non-violent methods, or were associated with the communists -- which in the context of events unfolding in Macedonia today (eg. SDS is in power and they are anti-nationalists and are destroying the Macedonian identity (whereas in the late 19th and early 20th century it was the socialists and communists who promoted and defended the uniqueness of the Macedonian identity), and the Macedonian population today in general is passive and apathetic when Macedonians need to show some movement and action to defend their nation), I can see why there is a growing trend to embrace Aleksandrov. But I don't think these are good reasons to turn Aleksandrov's legacy into one on par with Delcev and Sandanski.

I think there is much more research to be done on Aleksandrov, the right wing of VMRO was always demonized as being evil and vice versa with regards to the left. I agree some of his actions we're controversial but that can be said for the left as well.

People need to realise that many Macedonians during that time had to adapt to their new surroundings and environment (Misirkov is a fine example)

Nobody comes close to Goce Delchev with regards to what VMRO stood for, but Todor Aleksandrov renewed the organisation during a time when Macedonia was partitioned. The way i view his actions that were questionable were out of pure politics in order to harness support and benefit. Nothing is clear cut in the Balkans and in the end his life was cut short because Bulgaria could not control him.

The may manifesto which Protogerov signed on behalf of Aleksandrov (Power of attorney) was one of those final nails on Aleksandrov's coffin that decided his fate. Not many people know this, but the left wing of VMRO we're the reason why the may manifesto failed.
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:50 PM   #30
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I think there is much more research to be done on Aleksandrov, the right wing of VMRO was always demonized as being evil and vice versa with regards to the left. I agree some of his actions we're controversial but that can be said for the left as well.
I wonder if there were more "branches"/groups of VMRO than just the Left-Right split (I'm referring to the post WW1 period).
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