Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > General Discussions

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-06-2019, 10:40 PM   #11
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Carlin15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,330
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

According to some Torbeshi (the following video is from 8 years ago), this population numbers between 120,000 and 150,000 in Macedonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvYLBE0OQwY


Gocka said:
It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.

That's how it was in Balkans - group identity was largely based on religious affiliation. In the last couple of centuries this religious-based identity was carried over in the inception & formation of the new nations/nationalities starting with the Greek case (an ethnic Greek was simply an Orthodox Christian, a believer in Christ).

Orthodox faith being integral to the Macedonian identity is nothing new or surprising but reflects the same Balkan "pattern". "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" is indeed a new term - ordinary people just called them Torbeshi. (Macedonians paid more attention, socialized and intermarried with fellow Orthodox Vlachs. I remember reading a quote from the Bulgarian P. Slaveykov how in Prilep, in 1860, the Macedonians and Vlachs were as one body - and "if you wanted to separate them you would have to bite into living flesh").

The Serbs have the same "problem" nowadays with the population that inhabits the region of Sandžak (let alone in Bosnia if one wants to go in that direction). They never considered them as Serbs. Today (interestingly), the Muslim population of Sandžak largely considers themselves as belonging to the ethnic Bosniak body, which is literally a phenomenon and development that happened in the last 20 or 30 years.

The Bosniaks have been rather "active" throughout the area, and have made inroads as far as Macedonia. Today there are many Torbeshi and Gorani (of Kosovo) who consider themselves as ethnic Bosniaks.

Last edited by Carlin15; 06-06-2019 at 11:26 PM.
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 03:43 PM   #12
Niko777
Senior Member
 
Niko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,881
Niko777 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
I'm curious, could you elaborate? What do you mean by lifestyle or work ethic?
I mean they have no issue marrying young, having more than 3 children, and then going to Switzerland working 60 hours a week in factories and saving every euro they make and then building mansions in their villages.

The Christian population on the other hand... ne pechalat tolku kako Muslimanite.
Niko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 04:05 PM   #13
Gocka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ohrid
Posts: 2,164
Gocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlin15 View Post
According to some Torbeshi (the following video is from 8 years ago), this population numbers between 120,000 and 150,000 in Macedonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvYLBE0OQwY


Gocka said:
It goes both ways. As discussed in another thread Macedonians have typically considered the Orthodox faith as integral to the Macedonian identity. I think the simple fact that we refer to them as Torbeshi and not simply Macedonians says a lot. We have only recently started saying "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" growing up they were just Torbeshi and no one paid much mind to them.

That's how it was in Balkans - group identity was largely based on religious affiliation. In the last couple of centuries this religious-based identity was carried over in the inception & formation of the new nations/nationalities starting with the Greek case (an ethnic Greek was simply an Orthodox Christian, a believer in Christ).

Orthodox faith being integral to the Macedonian identity is nothing new or surprising but reflects the same Balkan "pattern". "Macedonians with the Muslim faith" is indeed a new term - ordinary people just called them Torbeshi. (Macedonians paid more attention, socialized and intermarried with fellow Orthodox Vlachs. I remember reading a quote from the Bulgarian P. Slaveykov how in Prilep, in 1860, the Macedonians and Vlachs were as one body - and "if you wanted to separate them you would have to bite into living flesh").

The Serbs have the same "problem" nowadays with the population that inhabits the region of Sandžak (let alone in Bosnia if one wants to go in that direction). They never considered them as Serbs. Today (interestingly), the Muslim population of Sandžak largely considers themselves as belonging to the ethnic Bosniak body, which is literally a phenomenon and development that happened in the last 20 or 30 years.

The Bosniaks have been rather "active" throughout the area, and have made inroads as far as Macedonia. Today there are many Torbeshi and Gorani (of Kosovo) who consider themselves as ethnic Bosniaks.
Its certainly a broader problem in the Balkans, particularly in the former Yugoslav states. We can thank the Turks for that really. The Greeks are somewhat of an exception to the rule but only because they purged most of their undesirables long ago.

Macedonians never forced the Macedonian identity on their cohabitants. On top of the that the Yugoslav identity took root at a critical time. Post Yugoslavia there was an opportunity to at least attempt to incorporate the various peoples in Macedonia into a Macedonian identity but as always we lacked visionary and capable leaders who could have made a difference.

I firmly believe between Serbs, Vlachs, Torbeshi, Christian Albanians, and yes even Roma, if the Macedonian identity could have gained just 10%, we would not have as rampant an Albanian problem today. That and taking in Kosovar refugees and we are talking about a 180 degree turn of events.
Gocka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2019, 04:08 PM   #14
Gocka
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ohrid
Posts: 2,164
Gocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud ofGocka has much to be proud of
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko777 View Post
I mean they have no issue marrying young, having more than 3 children, and then going to Switzerland working 60 hours a week in factories and saving every euro they make and then building mansions in their villages.

The Christian population on the other hand... ne pechalat tolku kako Muslimanite.
LOL that's putting it lightly.

Christian Macedonians became modern and westernized in all the wrong ways. They no longer live together in large families, they no longer pool resources, or have lots of kids, all of this has played right into the hands of the Albanians. They have the money, the kids, and the unity.

Of course Macedonians picked up those western values but not those of morality, rule of law, self governance, and dignity.
Gocka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2019, 02:00 PM   #15
Carlin15
Senior Member
 
Carlin15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Canada
Posts: 1,330
Carlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud ofCarlin15 has much to be proud of
Default

Nov 28, 2013

Сред најголемото струшко село Лабуништа населено со над 10.000 македонски муслимани, на 20 метарски јарбол беше подигнато албанското знаме.

АНКЕТА: (1.Ова е национален празник не е на државата и како национален празник само со албанско знаме овдека; 2. Зошто ние што сме, не сме ние германци, ние сме мак..албанци; 3. На овие моменти долго се чекаше и го доживеавме не само ние туку сите лабуништани и околината се дивиме на ова што ни го донесоаа нашиве луѓе и нашиве политичари.Знаете да зборувате албански? Знам, ама толку толку не знам )

URL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDf43leKw94

Last edited by Carlin15; 08-31-2019 at 02:02 PM.
Carlin15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump