Religion in the Balkans before Christianity

[nushevski77]

post deleted

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Olympianism was the predominant religion in Macedonia prior to the introduction of Christianity in the 1st Century CE. There isn't actually an agreed upon name for this religion so if anyone has any alternative names that better describes it I'm all ears.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I'm not that well-versed with this topic so other members may be able to provide more accurate responses.

okay, googling olympianism it seems like a Hellenistic religious practice, and there was a religious sanctuary of Aphrodite in Pella; would this mean that the Macedonians only worshiped Aphrodite?

I believe Macedonians worshipped almost all the same gods as the Hellenes but with some exceptions, I think we also had 2 gods they didn't which we may have shared with the Thracians.

Did all Macedonians fallow Olympianism or was it just the noble family's that did?

That's the age-old question there, most of our knowledge of the Ancient Macedonians is centred on the royal family and ruling class, we know little of the general populace. I really have no idea if the average Macedonian of the time worshipped the gods of Olympus. If I had to guess I would say Olympianism would have been common in Lower Macedonia but likely not so much in Upper Macedonia. This is just a guess though, I am not basing that off any historical fact.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

thanks, this is very interesting; I wonder if we will ever know, maybe a breakthrough in archaeology would lead us to a conclusion. But your guess with the lower vs upper Macedonia theory does seem plausible although where would you determine where the cutoff would be? If we were to use the modern borders to divide between upper and lower it would open a flaw in your theory with the city of Heraclea Lyncestis being in the upper Macedonia, I have very little knowledge of this city so its hard to say but wouldn't you agree that it would of had a factor of spreading Olympianism since it was founded by Phillip II?

There is no definite border between Upper and Lower Macedonia, it was a vague division based on cultural and social differences between the two ill-defined regions. Cities like Heraclea Lyncestis were frontier oasis's for Macedonian culture against the backdrop of the Illyrian tribal lands.

Also a fallow up question, why did the Ancient Macedonians adopt hellenistic practices into there culture as well as hellenism? Or was this always apart of the ancient Macedonians?

There are threads dedicated to those kind of questions so I would implore you to read through them. But to summarise briefly: The Macedonian ruling class/royal family became increasingly Hellenistic over the centuries, particulary during and after the rule of Philip II.

[sydney]

Those ‘in the north’ were nature worshippers. Water and the sun were divine elements. The moon also had mystical power. A key difference was they never reached the anthropomorphic stage (Olympian like LoM outlined above) in the same way the Greeks did until the Greek influence started to spread further north. This is important to note when considering if northerners such as Macedonians were ‘Greek’.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Those ‘in the north’ were nature worshippers. Water and the sun were divine elements. The moon also had mystical power. A key difference was they never reached the anthropomorphic stage (Olympian like LoM outlined above) in the same way the Greeks did until the Greek influence started to spread further north. This is important to note when considering if northerners such as Macedonians were ‘Greek’.

Yes I forgot to mention it is believed the Ancient Macedonians (or even their ancestors) were sun worshipers, as many ancient people were.

[YuriB]

Perhaps one of you has done the literature review and knows about this: Could it be that the Olympian religion is just the flavor of an ancestral (P.I.E.) and perhaps shared religion? The ancient Greeks just documented it first and then influenced their neighbors (and apparently old kin) towards the Greek version?

There are similarities among ancient Indo-European languages in their gods. Greek, Latin and Sanskrit are prime examples, they all have Zeus one way or another.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Perhaps one of you has done the literature review and knows about this: Could it be that the Olympian religion is just the flavor of an ancestral (P.I.E.) and perhaps shared religion? The ancient Greeks just documented it first and then influenced their neighbors (and apparently old kin) towards the Greek version?

There are similarities among ancient Indo-European languages in their gods. Greek, Latin and Sanskrit are prime examples, they all have Zeus one way or another.

Yes, I personally see Olympianism as just a variant of a greater mediterranean religion that had existed prior, most notably amongst the Egyptians and Phoenicians.

[Gocka]

They were all some variants of polytheism that derive from the ancient Egyptians one way or another just with different names and faces. A lot of Macedonians in antiquity practiced religions similar to the Thracian's. This is a poorly documented are given hat very little is written about the common Macedonian. The Hellenic influence was certainly strong with some of the nobility, but it seems like that took root as time progressed.

If I had to guess I'd say the majority of common Macedonians didn't practice the Hellenic religion. If I am not mistaken I don't think the Spartans did either.

Maybe Vangelovski has some insight? This is his area of expertise.

[Carlin]

From wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chthonic

In his book The Mycenaean World, linguist and classicist John Chadwick argues that many chthonic deities may be remnants of the native Pre-Hellenic religion and that many of the Olympian deities may come from the Proto-Greeks who overran the southern part of the Balkan Peninsula in the late third millennium BC. He does, however, note that this may be somewhat of an overgeneralization and that the origins of chthonic and Olympian deities are probably much more complex. The German classicist Walter Burkert explicitly rejects the notion of chthonic deities as pre-Greek and the Olympian deities as Indo-European in his book Greek Religion. He comments, "It is the chthonic chaoi which are related to Indo-European, whereas the Olympian sacrifice has connections with Semitic tradition."


An interesting book I found and purchased in a used bookstore a couple of years ago has a short article titled "Indo-European mythology in the Bronze Age". The book is called "Bronze Age Migrations in the Aegean, Archaeological and lingustic problems in Greek prehistory - Proceedings of the First International Colloquium on Aegean Prehistory....." published in 1974 (in U.S.A.) by Noyes Press. On page 259 there is a short paper by Ivan Pudic, titled "Indo-European mythology in the Bronze Age" which is less than 3 pages in total. His short article starts as follows: "The greatest god of Greeks, Illyrians, Macedonians, Romans, Germans and Indians was the same, a god of the light: Zeus, Deipatyros, Ziu, Diespater, Tyr, Dyaus..."


From Early Byzantine Churches in Macedonia & Southern Serbia - URL to the book:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=WoSuCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=Mithra+cult+Macedonia&source=bl&ots=V0vRY32dHm&sig=ACfU3U2f24vOtr2RxjaNtXlZge-LYBpAIw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjy08DhurrgAhWPpFkKHblPDTg4ChDoATADegQIBxAB#v=onepage&q&f=false

[sydney]

Perhaps one of you has done the literature review and knows about this: Could it be that the Olympian religion is just the flavor of an ancestral (P.I.E.) and perhaps shared religion? The ancient Greeks just documented it first and then influenced their neighbors (and apparently old kin) towards the Greek version?

There are similarities among ancient Indo-European languages in their gods. Greek, Latin and Sanskrit are prime examples, they all have Zeus one way or another.

About the documentation you’re on the right path. The Greeks humanised and moralised nature worship and gave poetic beauty to mortal-like gods whereas the Balkan peoples didn’t evolve their worship with the same poetic abilities. I believe this is a strong argument for the non-Greek nature of the tribes north of Thessaly.