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Old 08-29-2009, 10:49 PM   #11
indigen
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Excellent selection of quotable quotes, SOM!
I recommend the following as an optional addition:

Justin 13.5.7

Quote:
This being reported to Alexander, he gave orders that a thousand ships of war should be raised among his allies, with which he might carry on war in the west; and he intended to make an expedition, with a powerful force, to level Athens with the ground.
If Alexander III of Macedon had lived a little longer, not only would he have conquered "the whole inhabited world for the Macedonians" [Plutarch the Age of Alexander, book 7.47] but would have have leveled Athens to the ground, as he did to Thebes.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:23 PM   #12
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i cant remember where i read the obervation that given the preponderance of "slavic" place names in the peloponese the writer wondered if they predated the middle ages slavic invasion of the peloponese and could those placenames actually be pelasgian. in my opinion its all coming togther, and eventually it will be proven the pelasgians may very well have spoken a langauge if not proto slavic then very closely related to the slavic group.
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Old 10-10-2015, 11:32 PM   #13
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I came across an interesting document recently attributed to Marcus Junianus Justinus in which he describes Alexander’s generals in such glowing terms and in such a gushing sense of awe that I just had to share a part of it with everyone on this forum. What caught my eye in particular was Justin’s description of them as belonging to a “single nation”. Reading this it’s hard to overlook the repeated theme in the writings of all these historians, from Justin to Arrian, Diodorus, Plutarch, Quintus Curtius and others where the Macedonians are described as belonging to a unique “nation”, “race” and “ethnicity”.

Here it is:

“Alexander’s generals were worthy to aspire to his throne, for they possessed such courage and inspired such respect that it would be easy to take them all for kings. Such was the beauty of their forms, the greatness of their stature and the extent of their wisdom that if one did not know them one might believe that they had been chosen, not from a single nation but from all the universe. Never before had Macedonia or any other country seen the blossoming of so many illustrious men. First Philip, and then Alexander, had selected them with such care that they seemed to have sought out not companions in war so much as successors to their power. Who then could wonder that with such servants Alexander conquered the world, given that the Macedonian army was led not by so many chiefs but by so many kings? They would have been without peers if they had not fallen to fighting among themselves, and the province of Macedonia would have had many Alexanders had fortune-inspiring rivalry in courage among them-not armed them for their mutual ruin”.

Marcus Junianus Justinus
Epitome of the Philippic History,
XIII.1.10-15; 2.1-14,
3rd Century AD

Also, I just want to add my two cents regarding keeping the language being posted at a respectable level. I have to agree with Soldier of Macedon in this case. It doesn't help our cause to mimic the abuse that some Greeks often dish out at us.
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovius View Post
There was one citation that really brought this period into focus for me.

Marcus Justinus regarded the Macedonians as Pelasgians, a term used by Hellenic settlers for the indigenous populations of Southeastern Europe, such as the architects of Athens, a people who greatly influenced this influx of populations from around the Mediterranean region, who even came to worship many of their deities, supporting the view that the Southern Illyrian Peninsula came to be inhabited by many diverse populations, not conquered in the formal sense. It was observed and recorded that these populations spoke a different language than the language that the Hellenes spoke. Herodotus even reported that a number of Pelasgian urban centers remained uncosmopolitanized linguistically. He was also confident that the Dorians were a Macedonian population. Rodus, a Dorian stronghold (Rhodes/Rod), retains meaning in the Illyrian linguistic group (Laconia/lagonija), but, by the time of Herodotus, the Dorians were speaking what can be referred to as the Doric version of the creole language that had developed out of the admixture of these populations.
Great analysis Sovius, but here's a point I wanted to touch upon. Generally, those who support the position that the ancient Macedonian were Greeks, cite Herodotus, who called the Dorians a "makednon ethnos" while they lived about Pindus. However, as Nicholas G. L. Hammond points out:
Quote:
it has been assumed sometimes that when Herodotus wrote of the Dorian family (genos) living in Pindus and being called "Makednon" (a term he resumed at 8.43 with the word ethnos), he meant Macedonian and proposed that the Dorians and Macedonians were in some sense fused. But when Herodotus meant Macedonians, he said Macedonians and he used the adjective "Makedonikon" (7.131). His own usage shows that "Makednon" had an altogether different meaning.
This is especially important to take not of, because according to Herodotus himself, the Dorians were of the Hellenic race. Thus, considering Hammond's point, it's not likely that the Dorians were Macedonians as Herodotus himself says they're Hellenes, while the Macedonians were not Hellenes themselves. Taken from "9th Edition of Encyclopedia Britannica - free ninth edition online encyclopedia Britannica » Volume 7 [DEA - ELD]: 01'1110permitime to Dorogobush."

There are these important points:
Quote:
Herodotus then, in speaking of the Athenians and Spartans as standing at the head severally of the Dorian and Ionian races, states positively that the Ionian was a Pelasgic, the Dorian a Hellenic people; that the former had always been stationary, while the latter had many times changed its abode.
and:
Quote:
Further, there is the extreme unlikelihood that the tribes afterwards known as Dorians should for a certain period have been called Macedonians, or rather, as Herodotus implies, that they should more than once change their name. The assertion that they were called Macedonians involves a fresh contradiction, for elsewhere Herodotus asserts that the Macedonians were not Hellenic at all
source: http://www.libraryindex.com/encyclop...ic-tribes.html
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:29 AM   #15
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A bit too strong, as Herodotus does not state the Macedonians were not Hellenic, though that is the logical inference.
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Old 10-15-2015, 08:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Philosopher View Post
A bit too strong, as Herodotus does not state the Macedonians were not Hellenic, though that is the logical inference.
Actually, you're correct. Though plenty of others have stated exactly that. In any case, I was just looking to put my 2 cents in about the distinction between the Dorian "makednos" and the Macedonian "Makedonikon."
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Old 10-17-2015, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
i cant remember where i read the obervation that given the preponderance of "slavic" place names in the peloponese the writer wondered if they predated the middle ages slavic invasion of the peloponese and could those placenames actually be pelasgian. in my opinion its all coming togther, and eventually it will be proven the pelasgians may very well have spoken a langauge if not proto slavic then very closely related to the slavic group.
Osiris has retired from this forum, hasn't he? I recall Osiris, even from the old Maknews forum, and it has been a long time.
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