Macedonian Truth Forum   

Go Back   Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian Truth Forum > Macedonian History

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-30-2018, 03:23 AM   #21
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,744
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
You call bullshit on a the -phone terminology? It is a legitimate linguistic term, not much more I can say than that. Either way, this isn't relevant to the thread nor my statement.
This is a Macedonian forum and any Macedonians who feel they are being more correct by using the language of our enemy (in this case Greeks) must have souvlaki in his head.

You have the opportunity to present facts as Macedonians deservedly should acknowledge and see them. And, if we could muster any kind of thoughtful and cohesive action, the world might begin to follow.

Another example is what you might call "Church Slavonic" is what I call "Old Macedonian". See what I did there? Nobody else can take that away from us. But when people like you give it away for free, it is offensive.

And the last time I ever heard the words:
Germanophone,
Anglophone,
Hispanophone,
Francophone, etc.
... was never.

So while you believe my point has nothing to do with this thread, I agree for different reasons. "Slavophones" have nothing to do with Macedonians. Therefore you introduced the irrelevance. I simply pointed it out.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 07:17 AM   #22
Soldier of Macedon
Administrator
 
Soldier of Macedon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Outpost
Posts: 13,006
Soldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond reputeSoldier of Macedon has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
Gorica is not apart of Macedonia and its non-Albanian population died off long ago.
Peco Cingovski was a Macedonian communist fighter during WWII who was born in Gorica. The paternal great-grandparents of some of my distant cousins in Macedonia were born in Gorica and moved to the village of Trap in Bitola at the beginning of the 20th century. All of these individuals identified as Macedonians. Your earlier suggestion that they "died well back into the 18th century" is, quite simply, wrong.
Quote:
There is no way of knowing if they spoke Macedonian or another language similar to it, we can't force our identity and language on people who can't speak for themselves anymore. It's recorded "Slavic" was spokein Gorica but its exact relation to Macedonian or any other language is not known for sure.
The vernacular spoken in Gorica belongs to the south-western group of Macedonian dialects, which means it is close to the vernacular spoken in Kostur. There is a document from the 16th century where words and phrases are recorded from the south-western region of Macedonia and they are almost identical to the dialects spoken in Bitola and Lerin. Geographically, Gorica is roughly about 50km or so from Kostur or the Macedonian-controlled part of Lake Prespa. It is less than a 100km to reach either Bitola or Lerin. The nearest predominantly "Slavophone" town outside of historical Macedonia is probably Podgorica in Montenegro which is about 300km away. Look at a map and then take a wild guess as to which language the Gorica dialects would most resemble.
Quote:
It would be the same as claiming the historical Slavophone population of Epirus and Thessaly were Macedonians as well.
Not really. Aside from toponyms we don't have much more to compare for these two regions. That said, due to continuum if such dialects were still spoken in those regions it would naturally follow that they would be more related to Macedonian than any other language further north.
__________________
In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a full blooded Macedonian.
Soldier of Macedon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 07:40 AM   #23
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,203
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
So who do you personally think these Slavic speakers likely were?, Serbians?, Bulgarians?, Ukrainians?, Poles?, Russians?, Slavophone Greeks?, Greeks?, Albanians?, Turks?, Germans?, Irish?, Swedes?, Iranians?, Japanese?, Brazilians?, Nigerians?
Possibly their own people completely independent of all modern nations, like the Thracians.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 07:53 PM   #24
Tomche Makedonche
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ostralija
Posts: 1,120
Tomche Makedonche is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
Possibly their own people completely independent of all modern nations, like the Thracians.
Do you believe Macedonian communities were capable of existing anywhere else in the world?, Or did the impenetrable border security that existed prior to the 20th century preclude them from travelling to any region outside of what we now consider the geographic borderlines of Macedonia? (even to, say, one of the closest cities to rural villages on the outskirts of those traditional geographic Macedonian borders i.e. Gorica?)
__________________
“There’s a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can’t take part, you can’t even passively take part, and you’ve got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you’ve got to make it stop, and you’ve got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you’re free, the machine will be prevented from working at all” - Mario Savio
Tomche Makedonche is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:00 PM   #25
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,744
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Those Albanophones in Macedonia never stop ringing!
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:25 PM   #26
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,203
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Peco Cingovski was a Macedonian communist fighter during WWII who was born in Gorica. The paternal great-grandparents of some of my distant cousins in Macedonia were born in Gorica and moved to the village of Trap in Bitola at the beginning of the 20th century. All of these individuals identified as Macedonians. Your earlier suggestion that they "died well back into the 18th century" is, quite simply, wrong.

The vernacular spoken in Gorica belongs to the south-western group of Macedonian dialects, which means it is close to the vernacular spoken in Kostur. There is a document from the 16th century where words and phrases are recorded from the south-western region of Macedonia and they are almost identical to the dialects spoken in Bitola and Lerin. Geographically, Gorica is roughly about 50km or so from Kostur or the Macedonian-controlled part of Lake Prespa. It is less than a 100km to reach either Bitola or Lerin. The nearest predominantly "Slavophone" town outside of historical Macedonia is probably Podgorica in Montenegro which is about 300km away. Look at a map and then take a wild guess as to which language the Gorica dialects would most resemble.

Not really. Aside from toponyms we don't have much more to compare for these two regions. That said, due to continuum if such dialects were still spoken in those regions it would naturally follow that they would be more related to Macedonian than any other language further north.

Fair enough, you make good points.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:26 PM   #27
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,203
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomche Makedonche View Post
Do you believe Macedonian communities were capable of existing anywhere else in the world?, Or did the impenetrable border security that existed prior to the 20th century preclude them from travelling to any region outside of what we now consider the geographic borderlines of Macedonia? (even to, say, one of the closest cities to rural villages on the outskirts of those traditional geographic Macedonian borders i.e. Gorica?)

Oh course we can and did/do. The borders of Macedonia just all other nations are the results of politics above all else. The Macedonian peasant in the Ottoman period would have no clue about these regional borders and could have travelled and settled anywhere.
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:28 PM   #28
Liberator of Makedonija
Senior Member
 
Liberator of Makedonija's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,203
Liberator of Makedonija is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post

And the last time I ever heard the words:
Germanophone,
Anglophone,
Hispanophone,
Francophone, etc.
... was never.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anglophone
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...h/germanophone
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...h/hispanophone
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/de...on/francophone
__________________
I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.
Liberator of Makedonija is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 10:55 PM   #29
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,744
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

You can't rely on any of them. I note none of them provide a definition of "Macedonophone". They must be second rate internet things. Ask me what it means, I can tell you.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2018, 11:15 PM   #30
Risto the Great
Senior Member
 
Risto the Great's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Macedonian Colony of Australia
Posts: 14,744
Risto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond reputeRisto the Great has a reputation beyond repute
Default

Quote:
germanophone
[ʒɛʀmanɔfɔn ]
adjective
German-speaking
masculine and feminine noun
German-speaker
While you are at it, each of your justifications relate to nations. German is used above. "Slavophone" relates to the Kingdom of the Slavs? What is "Slavic"? I have never heard anyone speak Slavic. How do you say "In the service of Greeks" in "Slavic". And ultimately, what is a "slavophone"? A Greek can tell us, but I don't trust them much.
__________________
Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA

"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Risto the Great is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
albania, golobrdo, malaprespa, united macedonia, vardar


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump