Greece, History, Truth

[Soldier of Macedon]

If the Albanians and greeks are really Slavs ethnically, why do they not speak in a tongue which is part of the Slavic linguistic group?

Nikodim, are you an "ethnic Slav"?

[TrueMacedonian]

The Balkans, by Dennis Hupchick.

[TrueMacedonian]

page 172

[I of Macedon]

“But a history that does not change, that reduces all the complexities of social, political, and cultural change, to a single, eternal moment, isn’t history at all.”

No, its not history and its not a freak of nature, its a mad scientific social and cultural experiment on a mass scale. Erasing and/or altering the last 1000 years or so, then molding that with ones, one way interpretations of ancient history and bringing it forward with all its complexities into the modern day. Isn’t history.

However acknowledging the complexities of human history and accepting social, political and cultural changes that have transpired (or least known to have transpired) throughout mankinds history, that is at least to me history and one that can't or at least shouldn't be ignored.



Good post TM

[chicagoan]

We have Turkish nationals who arrived in Macedonia 80 odd years ago who are now ethnically Greek .... who call themselves Macedonian. It would appear anything is possible.

I have no idea of what you mean by "ethnic Slavs", it is a very stupid description that only has relevance in Greece. And we know they are ethnically challenged at the best of times. Please clarify what you mean with your borrowed term "ethnic Slavs".

turkish nationals ? would I be considered a turkish national since a part of my family is from Constantinople ? Asia Minor was and is a huge part of the hellenic ethnos. Turks are just a small part of that history in that area if you look at the big picture. I find it kind of funny how ppl take this out of context.

Most aegean turks have a hellenic backgroud since a lot of muslim greeks were left behind. They come to identify themselves as " turks " now. So when you say we have turkish descent in us...you actually mean the other way around. We have to clear up a lot of misconceptions to go forward. Ppl have to lighten up too...nobody is pure in the balkans. Dont delude yourselves into thinking you ppl are purebred or something.

Hispanics are considered an ethnic group in the USA, so NO...this is not relevent just in Greece.

[chicagoan]

I also would like to ask a couple questions purely hypothetical

Lets say for some reason tommorrow the native americans cross the miississpi river in midwest USA in the hundreds of thousands to settle in lands THEY ONCE WERE. I am sure to the other ppl inhabiting the area for hundreds of years that they would be considered to be as prosfigs. But would it not in reality just be the native americans coming back to that area that they called once home?

I will take this one step futher...is it entirely possible that maybe pockets of hellenic ppl were assimilated to the slavic language ? It has happened to the muslim greeks of anatolia..what makes you not think that maybe some or most of you ppl are in realilty slavic speaking ppl of hellenic descent ? Divided by events in history ?

We should not have to put each other in the corner to say what you are or are not. Once that stops happening..maybe this shit can be resolved.

[Soldier of Macedon]

That 'ethnic Hellenes' were "ONCE THERE" in Macedonia is an inflated point that is manipulated by people of your sort. Allow me to take it a step further, you are a using an apellation that simply wasn't used by people in what is now modern Greece, especially not during the period of your so-called 'assimilated Hellenes' theory.

We should not have to put each other in the corner to say what you are or are not

Macedonians don't object to Greece saying what they are or using the term Macedonia, the Greeks do object on the same points against the Macedonians.

Fascists? Racists? Probably a combination of both mixed in with some disturbed nazi-like nationalism. There is absolutely no valid reason for this dispute between our countries to be taking place, your side are the instigators, your side is at fault. Why don't you tell your people to stop putting Macedonians in a corner? Have you told them, and if so, what was their response?

[chicagoan]

That 'ethnic Hellenes' were "ONCE THERE" in Macedonia is an inflated point that is manipulated by people of your sort. Allow me to take it a step further, you are a using an apellation that simply wasn't used by people in what is now modern Greece, especially not during the period of your so-called 'assimilated Hellenes' theory.

Macedonians don't object to Greece saying what they are or using the term Macedonia, the Greeks do object on the same points against the Macedonians.

Fascists? Racists? Probably a combination of both mixed in with some disturbed nazi-like nationalism. There is absolutely no valid reason for this dispute between our countries to be taking place, your side are the instigators, your side is at fault. Why don't you tell your people to stop putting Macedonians in a corner? Have you told them, and if so, what was their response?

.

I personally dont find it inflated at all. I also dont get this " Modern Greece " term being tossed around implying a discontinuity of our heritage. I know its been your cornerstone policy of trying to negate us but quite frankly I find it being quite flawed and ridiculous at best.

I do agree with you on your second comment. Yes..it was a mistake for Greece to take a hardline approach in the early nineties during the breakup of yugoslavia. It was stupid and we are paying for it to this day. Nationalism really got the better of us back then and I have mentioned this in Greek forums. To answer your question their response wasnt to flattering of my opinions. Im more of a reconciliatory person than someone that will put you down. As my favorite US politician Ron Paul says...its caused a lot of " blowback " the hardline policy of Greece back then.

Unfortunatly now...Gruevski has taken a policy of Pasok/ND back then. Very nationalistic and its not going to work for him. You doing marches and going against the grain may make you feel good, but internationaly it will go against you. I just hope we can somehow finish this really soon.

[Daskalot]

I also would like to ask a couple questions purely hypothetical

Lets say for some reason tommorrow the native americans cross the miississpi river in midwest USA in the hundreds of thousands to settle in lands THEY ONCE WERE. I am sure to the other ppl inhabiting the area for hundreds of years that they would be considered to be as prosfigs. But would it not in reality just be the native americans coming back to that area that they called once home?

I will take this one step futher...is it entirely possible that maybe pockets of hellenic ppl were assimilated to the slavic language ? It has happened to the muslim greeks of anatolia..what makes you not think that maybe some or most of you ppl are in realilty slavic speaking ppl of hellenic descent ? Divided by events in history ?

We should not have to put each other in the corner to say what you are or are not. Once that stops happening..maybe this shit can be resolved.

So you really believe that all of the Christians of Turkey were/are straight descendants of the Ancient Hellenes?
If I understand you correctly, you do not see the Christians of Turkey as native to the land, is this correct?

[chicagoan]

I do believe that continuity between us and our ancestors remain. To say the ancient hellenes were completely wiped out as if a UFO came down and picked them all up is wishfull thinking for some ppl to justify their agenda's.

When you say christians of turkey can you provide some examples ?


btw: does your nick mean " teacher " ? Daskalos in greek means teacher...thats why im asking..

[Risto the Great]

I do believe that continuity between us and our ancestors remain. To say the ancient hellenes were completely wiped out as if a UFO came down and picked them all up is wishfull thinking for some ppl to justify their agenda's.

To say that the ancient hellenes were not wiped out but only people who speak Greek in the 21st century are allowed to claim ancestry from them is even more wishful.

[Bill77]

Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

Here is your continuity

TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
det Custom Adeti
Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
Aga Land owner Agas
Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
Alan Area, ground Alana
Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga
Aman For mercy's sake Aman
Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
Ananas Pineapple Ananas
Anason Aniseed Anithos
Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
Angarya Forced labor Angaria
Aptal Stupid Abdalis
Apukurya Carnival Apokria
Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
Asik Someone in love Asikis
Atlet Athlete Athlitis
Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
Ayran A drink Ariani

Shit we are only in the "A" section.

[chicagoan]

listen...i never said other ppl cannot make up todays's greek ethnos. Arvanites for example..the term you so much like to mention all the time. Consider themselves greek. They speak it, feel for it, bled for it, and completely subscribe to everything greek. You tell them they are albanian and most likely you will end up on the floor.

Now I can recall countless debates between greeks and albanians about the status of arvanites. Some say arvanites are greeks speaking dialect of albanian ( possible ). Albanians say they are albanians that have been completely assimilated ( also possible ). Truth is this is the balkans and it is extremely difficult if not impossible to clarify such trivial issues.

That being said..does not mean we completely lost our hellenic ancestry. It just means that other ppl can assimiate into greeks without question. Even you Risto

[chicagoan]

Well teach us the turkish language while you are at it. Just ask your baba if you need help. Oh here i will start it for you.

Here is your continuity

TURKISH ENGLISH GREEK
det Custom Adeti
Afaroz Excommunicate Aforismos
Aga Land owner Agas
Ahmak Idiot Ahmakis
Ahtapot Octopus Htapodi
Alan Area, ground Alana
Alarga Open sea, distant Alarga
Aman For mercy's sake Aman
Anadolu Anatolia (East in Greek) Anatoli
Ananas Pineapple Ananas
Anason Aniseed Anithos
Anfora Anchor Amphoreus
Angarya Forced labor Angaria
Aptal Stupid Abdalis
Apukurya Carnival Apokria
Arap Negro, bogyman Arapis
Arnavut Albanian Arnautis
Asik Someone in love Asikis
Atlet Athlete Athlitis
Avanak Gullible, stupid Avanakis
Ayran A drink Ariani

Shit we are only in the "A" section.

cmon Bill, we ended on a good note.

anyway, im sure you joking...right ?

[Bill77]

cmon Bill, we ended on a good note.

anyway, im sure you joking...right ?

Common chicagoan what are friends for, to laugh and stir each other.

oops my finger sliped on the keyboard

Baba - Father - Babas
Baca - Chimney - Batzias
Bacak - Leg, leg of trousers in G.- Batzaki
Bacanak - Brother in law - Batjanakis
Baglama - A string instrument - Baglamas
Bahce - Garden - Bahtses
Bahsis - Tip - Baxisi
Bakir - Copper - Bakiri
Bakkal - Grocer - Bakkalis
Baklava - Baklava - Baklavas
Balta - Ax - Baltas
Bamya - Okra - Bamia
Barbunya - A fish - Barbunia
Barut - Gunpowder - Baruti
Battaniye - Woolen Blanket - Batania
Batakci - Swindler - Bataxis
Bayrak - Flag - Bairaki
Bekar - Batchelor - Bekiaris
Bekri - Drunk - Bekris
Bela - Trouble - Belas
Benzin - Petrol, gas - Benzina
Bereket - Abundance, plenty - Bereket
Beton - Concrete - Beton
Bey - Mr. - Beis
Bezelye - Pea - Bizeli
Biber - Pepper - Piperi
Biftek - Steak - Bifteki
Bodrum - Cellar, dungeon - Boudroumi
Bomba - Bomb - Bomba
Bostan - Vegetable field, garden - Bostani
Bora - Storm - Bora
Boya - Paint - Bogia
Borek - Pastry, pie - Boureki
Bre - Hi, you - Vre
Budala - Idiot - Boudalas
Bulgur - Boiled wheat - Bligouri
But - Thigh - Bouti
Buz - Ice, very cold - Bouzi
Buzuki - Bouzouki - Bouzouki

come on, Embrace your Heratage friend. lol