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Old 01-03-2011, 10:41 PM   #44
Soldier of Macedon
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Originally Posted by Agamoi Thytai
Why is it impossible to apply the same on the Macedonians?Because Demosthenes,the paid Persian agent labeled Philip as "barbarian"?
Demosthenes may have been affiliated with the Persians in one way or another, but that doesn't mean that the rest of the Hellenes were. It was his voice, and not that of Isocrates, that was heard, condoned and followed by the Hellenes. Even after his death this so-called Persian agent was praised by the Hellenes, who wrote at the base of his statue that: Had you for Hellas been strong, as wise you were, The Macedonian had not conquered her. Demosthenes may be disliked by modern Greeks like you, but to the people who actually mattered, the ancient Hellenes, he was largely a popular figure. As Plutarch states: all Greece seemed to have recovered her confidence and was up in arms to support Demosthenes for the future.
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Being "Not of kindred race" was a usual label that frequently ancient Greeks applied to other fellow Greeks.The actual Greek term used by Isocrates,"ουχ' ομοφύλου γένους" or his equivalent "αλλοφύλου γένους" is used in many ancient Greek texts to describe the tribal differences among Athenians,Spartans,Thebans e.t.c.
Isocrates makes a clear distinction between Macedonians and Hellenes, don't embarrass yourself by trying to claim otherwise. Hellenes did not "frequently" refer to other Hellenes as 'foreigners' either, all you're doing is cherry picking a few quotes, as there is nothing you can produce to compare with the several citations relating to the Macedonians as a distinct people and foreigners by both Hellenes and Romans.
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Philip's Argead origin may have been mythical,but nevertheless it was never challenged by anyone in ancient time,and this speaks volumes.
It was challenged during the time of Alexander, Archelaus and Phillip, directly and indirectly. It was a myth. Scythians did it, so did the Romans and others. Hardly any of the claims were challenged, not literally anyway.
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Most of you Macedonians don't know who really Isocrates was and what he actually represented.I've seen many of you quoting his famous passage but no one has understand what he really meant
Spare me, your interpretation is narrow and tailor made to fit your story. If Isocrates meant Athenians and not Hellenes, then he would not have mentioned the latter. He words are clear enough - the name of 'Hellene' extends beyond the Hellenic people and can also refer to those with a classical education, which excludes any ethnic connotation. An African could be as Hellenic as Phillip and Alexander minus the obvious genetical particulars.

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So Isocrates was first and foremost an Athenian chauvinist and you may have a point here:He was trying to turn Philip's attention towards Persia instead of Athens.
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Instead of Greece. Phillip and his Macedonians had designs on the whole of Greece and not just Athens, stop trying to contain what is in fact a larger picture.
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Macedonians before Alexander's time were almost constantly engaged in wars against Illyrians and Thracian tribes and in the same passage of Polybius there is mentioned their war against the invading Gauls.Even a Roman,Appian aknowledged that Macedonia was the shield of Greece:
Macedonians protected Macedonia, not Greece, which found itself to be luckily located to the south.

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Not that he was the only Roman who held a similar view.Pliny the elder wrote:
"Such, at all events,were the opinions generally entertained in the reign of Alexander the Great, at a time when Greece was at the height of her glory, and the most powerful country in the world".
Pliny is obviously incorrect in this instance and his statement is easily refuted by other sources. Alexander was the king of Macedonia. Greece wasn't a country per se, nor was it a part of Macedonia (although controlled by the Macedonians), it was a league of states, and the environment which is labelled 'glorious' was no longer in existence after the Macedonian conquest of Greece.
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