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Bill77 02-21-2011 07:38 PM

The same usage was attested in the Hewrew word Javan, wich today it is translated as Greek. [/QUOTE] "Javan" denotes usually and properly Ionia, the western part of Asia Minor; which Today this region is part of Turkey.

Now who were these "Ionians" around 1000 years BC? well its certainly not these malakas we know as Greeks today.

Anyway, whats so special about the Ionians from around 1000BC and why did "Javan" denote "Ionia"?

Because Ionia was the birthplace of the new science.
A qualitative change occurred in Ionia shortly after 1000 BC. A place where civilization broke the link between religion and science and established a new discipline for systematic attempts to understand and explain nature. The new discipline was called philosophy, literally "love of wisdom", and science was part of it. A place where local Ancient scholars kept religion out of science. It was believed that religion was not suitable as a tool to explain the natural world.

So you see the word Javan/Ionia then later Hellene, was given to anyone who chose science over religion. It was not an ethnic sense. And those that translate it today as Greek (in an ethnic sense) is very wrong and its totally misleading.

Makedonin, Knowing that you are an athiest, if you walked the streets anywhere in the world back in ancient days, you also would have been labelled a Hellene. Now According to Greeks and some modern scholars, you would have been an ethnic Greek. How ridiculous is that.

George S. 02-21-2011 07:51 PM

If the Greeks are called Javan where's the macedonians,it doesn't mention them in any sons of Noah.Or are the macedonians lumped as one with Javan the greeks. thanks tm they are great.

TrueMacedonian 02-23-2011 01:02 AM

What alot Macedonians don't realize is how this legacy of St.Paul and Luke in Macedonia would later eventually lead into the Bogomil movement which would start in Macedonia and spread outward.

George S. 02-23-2011 09:23 PM

TM it is clear that ST Luke was a Macedonian.
On the word Javan i think it means "screwed" in macedonian.What does that tell you about our greek friends.

Soldier of Macedon 02-24-2011 12:22 AM

It tells us that [I]some[/I] of our Greek friends have more common sense than [I]some[/I] our Macedonian brothers. What does it tell you, George?

George S. 02-24-2011 08:33 AM

Well SOM i agree with that look at the name's got the macedonian govt eating out of it's hands & the greeks are not giving anything in return.

Soldier of Macedon 02-24-2011 04:08 PM

I was making reference to your 'screwed' suggestion regarding Javan and the Greeks.

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