Macedonian Truth Forum

Macedonian Truth Forum (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/index.php)
-   Macedonian History (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=5)
-   -   Isocrates - Letter to Phillip II of Macedon (4th Century BC) (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1585)

George S. 12-25-2010 01:49 AM

i have to agree with you spartan that the macedonians & hellenes were seperate people.

Agamoi Thytai 12-30-2010 10:21 AM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;19757] History is full of Macedonian battles against the Hellenes, Isocrates would have died 10 times over had he known about all of the other Macedonian victories against the Hellenes in subsequent years.[/QUOTE]
History is also ful of Hellenes vs Athenians battles
[url]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7517/grbar258.png[/url]

Hellenes vs Spartans

The Lacedaemonians, who were hard put to it by their double war, that against the Greeks and that against the Persians...
[url]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0084%3Abook%3D14%3Achapter%3D110%3Asection%3D2[/url]

and Hellenes vs Thebans

When twenty days were gone by, and the violence of the Greeks
did not slacken, Timagenidas thus bespake his countrymen-
"Ye men of Thebes, since the Greeks have so decreed, that they
will never desist from the siege till either they take Thebes or we
are delivered to them, we would not that the land of Boeotia should
suffer any longer on our behalf"
[url]http://www.greektexts.com/library/Herodotus/Calliope/eng/302.html[/url]

Isocrates would also have prefered to die a thousand times than seeing the humiliation his defeated ancestors suffered 80 years ago at the hands of the victorious Peloponnesians who demolished the Athenian walls under the music of flutes and claiming "this day was the begining of Greek freedom":
[url]http://books.google.gr/books?id=bn5Nz5yjGUIC&pg=PA1&dq=demolish+the+walls+to+the+music+of+flute-girls,+thinking+that+that+.+day+was+the+beginning+of+freedom+for+Greece.&hl=el&ei=VqQcTfCkFoi38QPEz-izBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=demolish%20the%20walls%20to%20the%20music%20of%20flute-girls%2C%20thinking%20that%20that%20.%20day%20was%20the%20beginning%20of%20freedom%20for%20Greece.&f=false[/url]
[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;19757]
I guess he was as naive as modern Greeks are today about what the Macedonian kings represented.[/QUOTE]
What did really the Macedonian kings represented?Polybius described it perfectly in his Histories,and he was certainly not naive:

What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks? For that Greece would have been continually involved in great dangers, if we had not had the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings as a barrier, who is ignorant?
[url]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0234%3Abook%3D9%3Achapter%3D35[/url]

George S. 12-30-2010 04:54 PM

A barbarian means a non greek ,the greeks could not understand the ancient macedonian language.Alexander & phillip can be best described as phillhellene (love of greek culture)at most where as the skapani grks think today that they were greek & nothing else.Remember demosthenes said that the macedonians were barbarian race not related to the greeks where you can't even buy a decent slave.Where as the greeks had the city states & macedonia was not a city state but a kingdom with a king & did not practice slavery like the greeks.I

Pelister 12-30-2010 08:34 PM

[QUOTE=Agamoi Thytai;84589]History is also ful of Hellenes vs Athenians battles
[url]http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/7517/grbar258.png[/url]

Hellenes vs Spartans

The Lacedaemonians, who were hard put to it by their double war, that against the Greeks and that against the Persians...
[url]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0084%3Abook%3D14%3Achapter%3D110%3Asection%3D2[/url]

and Hellenes vs Thebans

When twenty days were gone by, and the violence of the Greeks
did not slacken, Timagenidas thus bespake his countrymen-
"Ye men of Thebes, since the Greeks have so decreed, that they
will never desist from the siege till either they take Thebes or we
are delivered to them, we would not that the land of Boeotia should
suffer any longer on our behalf"
[url]http://www.greektexts.com/library/Herodotus/Calliope/eng/302.html[/url]

Isocrates would also have prefered to die a thousand times than seeing the humiliation his defeated ancestors suffered 80 years ago at the hands of the victorious Peloponnesians who demolished the Athenian walls under the music of flutes and claiming "this day was the begining of Greek freedom":
[url]http://books.google.gr/books?id=bn5Nz5yjGUIC&pg=PA1&dq=demolish+the+walls+to+the+music+of+flute-girls,+thinking+that+that+.+day+was+the+beginning+of+freedom+for+Greece.&hl=el&ei=VqQcTfCkFoi38QPEz-izBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=demolish%20the%20walls%20to%20the%20music%20of%20flute-girls%2C%20thinking%20that%20that%20.%20day%20was%20the%20beginning%20of%20freedom%20for%20Greece.&f=false[/url]

What did really the Macedonian kings represented?Polybius described it perfectly in his Histories,and he was certainly not naive:

What high honour do the Macedonians deserve, who throughout nearly their whole lives are ceaselessly engaged in a struggle with the barbarians for the safety of the Greeks? For that Greece would have been continually involved in great dangers, if we had not had the Macedonians and the ambition of their kings as a barrier, who is ignorant?
[url]http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0234%3Abook%3D9%3Achapter%3D35[/url][/QUOTE]

Again, New Greeks today with their sham heritage, and sham historical legacy, have a way of saying everything under the sun and proving nothing.

Where is the proof that the ancient Macedonians were 'Greeks'? If we can point to a dozen ancient writers who independently asserted that neither the Macedonians thought they were Greeks, and neither the Greeks (individually and as a whole), thought they were Greeks, you can't do much better than that.

The only reason these New Greeks are saying what they are saying is because they occupy Macedonian territory that never belonged to 'Greece', anytime in history before 1913. The New Greeks have no right and no legitimate claim to be the inheritors and heirs of the ancient Greeks. Its a sham, and their 'claims' to Macedonian territory are a sham. I hope someone takes that facile triumphalism you New Greeks revel in and export, and shoves it back down your Albanian and Turkish throats.

Louis Riel 12-30-2010 09:01 PM

Does anyone know if any Greek writing was found in the tomb thats supposedly that of Phillip 2?

Makedonska_Kafana 12-30-2010 09:12 PM

[QUOTE=Louis Riel;84635]Does anyone know if any Greek writing was found in the tomb thats supposedly that of Phillip 2?[/QUOTE]
I believe it was Roman? Keep in mind the Greeks (?) LOVE to alter writing often - tombstones after 1912 were all changed so what do you think about 3,000 years ago?

Not long ago they found at priests robe buried in Lerin the only problem was that the writing on it was not Greek - Pre 1913 and more then likely 1890's.

Louis Riel 12-30-2010 09:32 PM

Its ancient Macedonian.

I dont doubt the pettiness of certain people and the lengths theyll go to to promote their truth but as far as i know there hasnt been any writing found.....at least none concerning the identity of the resident corpse.

George S. 12-30-2010 10:43 PM

Theres been certain people shall we say outspoken in the archaelogical world from greece who have been suddenly assasinated in the night.They spoke out in that the finds were too fantastic to be greek & they could not be possibly be greek.How can one race of people be another race of people it's nonsensical & defies logic.Also over the border in greece they go as much as rip gravestones & change toponyms renaming people with greek versions & places so don't be surprised if they go to the extent of falsifying archaelogical digs.Proven fact on mto threads that a lot of the coins found in greece are forgeries busted by our TM.Also in ROM a fellow found a macedonian helmet from alexanders time so the greeks offered to buy the helmet for $1million euros & then say they found it on greek territory.Do people know that the greeks do not let outsiders to study artifacts unless it's approved by them.They only want you to see what they want themselves for youto see.

Bill77 01-01-2011 11:14 PM

[QUOTE=Pelister;84631][B]Again, New Greeks today with their sham heritage, and sham historical legacy, have a way of saying everything under the sun and proving nothing.[/B]

[B]Where is the proof [/B]that the ancient Macedonians were 'Greeks'? [B]If we can point to a dozen ancient writers [/B]who independently asserted that neither the Macedonians thought they were Greeks, and neither the Greeks (individually and as a whole), thought they were Greeks, you can't do much better than that.

[/QUOTE]This is an example of there mentality and where they get evidence from. lol

[QUOTE] Get Real Auzzies
Posted by: True Blue Greek, Craigieburn Vic, on 7/05/2010 10:32:47 AM
The Greeks made this country what it is. [B]Remeber my big fat greek wedding[/B] well! yes we made democracy [/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=51961&postcount=1[/url]

Parts of A Oliver Stone movie is another they quote and find as gospel. :6:

George S. 01-02-2011 01:01 AM

THe whole thing is a sham is right how about the myth how macedonians originated there was magnes & makedon supposedly related brothers?If that is so how can the two be the same people.Even the greeks make mistakes they forgot to obliterate.So we need macedonian writers (ancient) preferably to say there are differences.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Macedonian Truth Organisation