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-   -   Saint Luke the "man of Macedonia"? (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=3321)

TrueMacedonian 04-24-2010 09:26 PM

Saint Luke the "man of Macedonia"?
 
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Soldier of Macedon 04-26-2010 12:49 AM

I have heard about this before, very interesting TM, thanks for bringing it to our attention and providing supportive references. These little yet important details are buried under commonly 'accepted' versions of events, but things are certainly changing as Macedonia's significance throughout the ages continues to reveal itself.

julie 04-26-2010 01:05 AM

TrueMacedonian, as always, you are an awesome dude, and you inspire me!

The MTO is the best forum, collectively , a group of individuals fact finding, working collaboratively toward a common goal, for the Macedonian Cause.
I have learnt so much, and also from Onur's posts too, spreading a consiciousness, on documented evidence.

Pity RoM is going backwards when the diaspora fights so hard to achieve what is rightfully ours, and that is our identity, albeit being eroded away by self serving self proclaimed other "leading " organisations, not mentioning a name.

Luke, I had heard was a Macedonian apostle, and isnt this wonderful for the Macedonian orthodox church, these are the very facts which they should be spending on, for the cause instead of robbing their own people.

Futhermore, this shows the Greeks that they are actually stemming from the Macedonian church, anyway they are heathens in my eyes....having guns blessed by clerics to use to slaughter Macedonians with. How heathen and unchristian

osiris 04-26-2010 02:03 AM

i dont want to rain on anyones parade here but being a man of macedonia during the roman empire doesnt prove conclusively that h e was a macedonian the cities of the roman empire were very cosmopolitan.

Soldier of Macedon 04-26-2010 02:08 AM

You're right Osiris, I think more of the significance is with the fact that these events took place in Macedonia. Alot of evidence points to an Asia Minor origin for Luke.

osiris 04-26-2010 02:09 AM

exactly som

Soldier of Macedon 04-26-2010 02:14 AM

Here is something about Luke from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

[url]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09420a.htm[/url]

julie 04-26-2010 02:33 AM

umbrella broke from the hail, "rain on my parade" , love that play on words, cheers boys :)

TrueMacedonian 04-26-2010 04:48 PM

[QUOTE=osiris;49200]i dont want to rain on anyones parade here but being a man of macedonia during the roman empire doesnt prove conclusively that h e was a macedonian the cities of the roman empire were very cosmopolitan.[/QUOTE]

This is true Osiris. The Macedonians who imprisoned Paul referred to themselves as "Romans" as well. However the theory that Luke may have been a Macedonian isn't too far fethched.

TrueMacedonian 04-26-2010 04:55 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;49207]Here is something about Luke from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

[url]http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09420a.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

The info on that site, like most of the other sites on St.Luke, state that he is Greek. I find it to be Western Scholarship just assuming things because Luke wrote in Greek. Antioch is supposedly his place of origins. However I have read other texts that state that Luke may have descended from a well to do Macedonian family that settled in Antioch during the days of Alexander.

Here's another site that preaches just about the same thing the Catholic Encyclopedia site does; [url]http://www.novareinna.com/festive/luke.html[/url]

Saint Luke lived in the First Century A.D. He was a physician, companion to Saint Paul (with whom he traveled and preached the doctrine of the new faith) and Christian historian. His name is believed by some to be an abbreviation of Lucanus. According to ecclesiastical tradition, Luke was the author of the Acts of the Apostles and the Gospel According to Luke (sometimes referred to as the "Third Gospel"). Little is known of his birthplace, but it is an accepted fact that he was not of Jewish heritage. It is thought that Luke may have been a native of Antioch in Syria, but Greek in birth and education. Some authorities believe he may have been a Roman citizen.
Luke was probably a Gentile, since Paul distinguishes him from Jewish coworkers (Colossians 4:10-14). He may have been "Lucius of Cyrene," a resident of Cyrenaica in Northern Africa. Use of the first person plural in Acts 16:10-17 would seem to substantiate this, particularly since the author of Acts is referred to as a "man of Macedonia" (Acts 16:9). When Luke met Paul, he had already converted to Christianity, but knew nothing about the beginnings of the movement, save what others had relayed to him. Upon becoming Paul's traveling companion, however, Luke learned much about the religion from his new comrade and soon became well-versed in Jewish customs.

Aramaic was spoken widely in Antioch and Luke knew of the sacred writings of the Hebrews. He was an educated and refined man, skilled in literary expression. He was familiar with medical terms, having studied medicine at Tarsus (sometimes called Troas), the chief city of the Roman Province of Asia. It is here that Luke is believed to have met Paul for the first time. Some authorities claim that Luke was initially a shipboard doctor.

Luke wrote his gospel around 60 A.D. and composed Acts approximately three years later. For his gospel account, Luke garnered his information from eye-witnesses and documents. Since Luke is believed to have been with Paul when the latter was imprisoned at Rome, it appears likely that he would have met the apostles and disciples, and would have been aware of the gospels written by Mark and Matthew. It is widely held that one of the people Luke interviewed...perhaps at greater length than any other witness...may have been Mary, the Mother of Jesus Christ.

Accompanying Paul on visits to Antioch, Caesarea and Jerusalem, it would have been in these cities that Luke also encountered people who could have provided the information he sought for his writings. While Paul was detained in Caesarea for two years, Luke began to put together a history of Christianity. He had been taking notes during his journeys and wrote in flawless Greek. During Paul's first imprisonment at Rome, which extended over several years, Luke completed his two volume history. Shortly after attaining the age of 50, Luke accompanied Paul on the second missionary journey and, at approximately 57 years of age, he joined Paul again at Philippi to embark upon a third voyage, completing the trip in Jerusalem.

Luke, referred to by Paul as the "Beloved Physician," has rightly been called the first Christian historian. He was the only Gentile writer of the New Testament. He is the evangelist, poet, artist and cantor of the infancy of Jesus Christ. It was Luke who chronicled the Christian rendition of Christmas, searching out and preserving a birth story "too humble for prouder historians to touch." The Gospel of Luke has been described as the most beautiful book in the world...the opening chapters credited with being the most magnificent of all. The first two chapters of Luke's gospel relate the Christmas story. He is the only Evangelist to provide certain information about the conception, infancy and childhood of Jesus. The events described in the Bible by Luke alone include the Annuciation (the announcement by the Archangel Gabriel that Mary had been chosen as the mother of Christ). These words of Luke are the basis for the "Hail Mary" and the Angelus (Latin for "angel"). Luke also chronicled the only Gospel account of the Visitation, which contains what is considered to be one of the world's most beautiful prayers...the Magnificat. Luke is also the only Evangelist to describe the presentation of the child Jesus in the Temple according to Jewish custom.

These five events described by Luke: the Annuciation, the Visitation, the Nativity, the Presentation and the Finding of Jesus in the Temple compose the Rosary. Of all four Evangelists, it is Luke who best reveals Jesus as the man and constant friend to the poor and downtrodden, comforting even the despairing thief who was crucified alongside him.

There is some controversy regarding the details of Luke's death...even his age is a matter for speculation. Some maintain he was 74. Others that he was 84 or even 86. After preaching in Dalmatia, Gallia, Italy and Macedonia, Luke may have met his end at the hands of idolatrous Greek priests in Boeotia, who hanged him by the neck from an olive tree. However, other accounts propose that he died in Thebes and it is said that a secretion or balm from his holy body was used an an ointment to heal those suffering from diseases of the eyes. Miracles of Saint Luke's healing of ailments is believed to have continued for many years at the site of his grave, which would be visted by the faithful who came from both near and far. When the persecution of Christians came to a halt, the remains of Luke were transported to Constantinople under orders issued in 357 A.D. by Constantius, son of Constaintine the Great. It is in this location that his relics are now believed to lie, buried beneath the altar in the Church of the Holy Apostles, together with the remains of the disciples Andrew and Timothy. Luke, who never married, is venerated by the Church as a martyr. According to tradition, he was a skilled artist in addition to his other capabilities, and several pictures of "Our Blessed Lady" are attributed to his talented brush. Saint Luke's feast day is celebrated on October 18. He is the Patron Saint of Physicians, Artists, Brewers and Butchers and was referred to as "Paul's Disciple" by Saint John Chrysostom.



It seems that the assumptions of him being a Greek from Antioch are wide-spread in the internet. However the 'man of Macedonia' theory may not be so far fetched considering the arguement made by some scholars.

TrueMacedonian 04-26-2010 04:57 PM

[QUOTE]TrueMacedonian, as always, you are an awesome dude, and you inspire me![/QUOTE]

Thanks Julie :flowers: I'm glad to spread the word and to make our people and other people think as well.

TrueMacedonian 04-26-2010 05:00 PM

Here is another theory that may intrigue some of you. The theory that the "man of Macedonia" was none other than Alexander the Great (also includes the first European convert to christianity);

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Saint%20Luke%20Theory/TheActsofApostles.jpg[/IMG]
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TrueMacedonian 04-26-2010 05:08 PM

Some more info (and more to come from this same author later);

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Saint%20Luke%20Theory/Niswonger.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Saint%20Luke%20Theory/Niswonger223.jpg[/IMG]

makedonin 04-27-2010 03:34 AM

Interestingly, in the Coine Version of the Acts 16.9 of 1550 Stephanus New Testament it says
[QUOTE] ανηρ τις ην μακεδων εστως, παρακαλων αυτον και λεγων διαβας εις μακεδονιαν βοηθησον ημιν

[url]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts%2016.9&version=TR1550[/url]
[/QUOTE]

I have the Biyantine version and it has the same words as above, which would roughly translate in

[QUOTE]Macedon man, not even pleasing him (in other words urging him), and saying, pass over to Macedonia and help us[/QUOTE]

Or as it is found in many Bible translations as :
[QUOTE]
A Macedonian man was standing there urgin him, "Come over to Macedonia and help us"
[/QUOTE]


So there is a hudge version between Macedonian man and man of Macedonia.

More to read about the translations:

[url]http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/meaning_vs_translation.htm[/url]

osiris 04-27-2010 04:10 AM

yes there is makedonin thanks for pointing it out because sometimes translations can change the meaning and significance of the phrase or word.

luke is considered greek because by then the word greek was a broad term used to denote culture and language not kinship.

makedonin 04-27-2010 04:32 AM

[QUOTE=osiris;49494]
luke is considered greek because by then the word greek was a broad term used to denote culture and language not kinship.[/QUOTE]


I don't know about that osiris.

How ever, I don't like quoting the wikipedia, still it can be asserted that in this case, the following is true:

[QUOTE]St. Paul in his Epistles uses Hellene almost always juxtaposed to Hebrew, and in disregard of all other ethnicities (Romans, Syrians, Egyptians, etc) living in the area at the time. This is probably done with the aim of representing the sums of those two religious communities, the polytheistic and the monotheistic, whose cardinal theological difference was belief to either many or to one god, respectively.[34] Hellene is used in a religious meaning for the first time in the New Testament. In the Gospel of Mark 7:26, a woman arrives before Jesus kneeling before him: "The woman was a Hellene, a Syrophœnician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter."[35] Since the nationality or ethnicity of the woman is stated to be Syrophœnician, "Greek" (translated as such into the English of the King James Version, but as haižno "heathen" in Ulfilas's Gothic; Wycliffe and Coverdale likewise have heathen) must therefore signify her polytheistic religion.

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Greeks[/url]
[/QUOTE]

The same usage was attested in the Hewrew word Javan, wich today it is translated as Greek.

[QUOTE]
Daniel 8:20-21
By the word “Javan” the Hebrews designate not only the Greeks but the: Macedonians, and the whole of that tract which is divided by the Hellespont, from Asia Minor as far as Illyricmn. Therefore the meaning is — the king of Greece.

[url]http://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/calcom25.iii.xxv.html[/url]
[/QUOTE]

So what is left for the Greeks there?

TrueMacedonian 04-27-2010 06:13 PM

[QUOTE=osiris;49494]yes there is makedonin thanks for pointing it out because sometimes translations can change the meaning and significance of the phrase or word.

luke is considered greek because by then the word greek was a broad term used to denote culture and language not kinship.[/QUOTE]

Todays Western Scholars have differing views on Luke's origins. The so-called "tradition" is to state that he is a Greek from Antioch. However I have not seen anything in the bible to call him a Greek.

TrueMacedonian 04-27-2010 06:14 PM

[QUOTE=makedonin;49486]Interestingly, in the Coine Version of the Acts 16.9 of 1550 Stephanus New Testament it says


I have the Biyantine version and it has the same words as above, which would roughly translate in



Or as it is found in many Bible translations as :



So there is a hudge version between Macedonian man and man of Macedonia.

More to read about the translations:

[url]http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/meaning_vs_translation.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

Thanks for this Makedonin.

TrueMacedonian 04-27-2010 06:16 PM

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and the names underlined here are of Macedonians who were integral in spreading the good word;

[IMG]http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx190/TM2_album/Macedonians/Saint%20Luke%20Theory/Exploring2Corinthians18.jpg[/IMG]

Makedonetz 04-27-2010 06:25 PM

TrueMacedonian awsome references i have something to look up and study

Bill77 02-21-2011 07:38 PM

[QUOTE=makedonin;49496]
The same usage was attested in the Hewrew word Javan, wich today it is translated as Greek. [/QUOTE] "Javan" denotes usually and properly Ionia, the western part of Asia Minor; which Today this region is part of Turkey.

Now who were these "Ionians" around 1000 years BC? well its certainly not these malakas we know as Greeks today.

Anyway, whats so special about the Ionians from around 1000BC and why did "Javan" denote "Ionia"?

Because Ionia was the birthplace of the new science.
A qualitative change occurred in Ionia shortly after 1000 BC. A place where civilization broke the link between religion and science and established a new discipline for systematic attempts to understand and explain nature. The new discipline was called philosophy, literally "love of wisdom", and science was part of it. A place where local Ancient scholars kept religion out of science. It was believed that religion was not suitable as a tool to explain the natural world.

So you see the word Javan/Ionia then later Hellene, was given to anyone who chose science over religion. It was not an ethnic sense. And those that translate it today as Greek (in an ethnic sense) is very wrong and its totally misleading.

Makedonin, Knowing that you are an athiest, if you walked the streets anywhere in the world back in ancient days, you also would have been labelled a Hellene. Now According to Greeks and some modern scholars, you would have been an ethnic Greek. How ridiculous is that.

George S. 02-21-2011 07:51 PM

If the Greeks are called Javan where's the macedonians,it doesn't mention them in any sons of Noah.Or are the macedonians lumped as one with Javan the greeks. thanks tm they are great.

TrueMacedonian 02-23-2011 01:02 AM

What alot Macedonians don't realize is how this legacy of St.Paul and Luke in Macedonia would later eventually lead into the Bogomil movement which would start in Macedonia and spread outward.

George S. 02-23-2011 09:23 PM

TM it is clear that ST Luke was a Macedonian.
On the word Javan i think it means "screwed" in macedonian.What does that tell you about our greek friends.

Soldier of Macedon 02-24-2011 12:22 AM

It tells us that [I]some[/I] of our Greek friends have more common sense than [I]some[/I] our Macedonian brothers. What does it tell you, George?

George S. 02-24-2011 08:33 AM

Well SOM i agree with that look at the name negotiations.it's got the macedonian govt eating out of it's hands & the greeks are not giving anything in return.

Soldier of Macedon 02-24-2011 04:08 PM

I was making reference to your 'screwed' suggestion regarding Javan and the Greeks.


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