False Impressions of Macedonia: 19th-20th Centuries

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13670

    False Impressions of Macedonia: 19th-20th Centuries

    Many travelers, journalists and politicians foreign to Macedonia were misinformed by the various mouthpieces of propaganda operating from the 19th century onwards, and much unreliable data exists from this period about the Macedonian people. Were it not for the high amount of propaganda emanating from the neighboring states during that era the sources and accounts of the population would have been more accurate, uniform and trustworthy. Modern antagonists against the Macedonian people, mostly Greeks and Bulgarians, routinely continue their re-born propaganda by using sources of this nature, and present unsuspecting observers with a false picture and manipulated information in their attempts to claim that the Macedonian people were “invisible” until the 20th century.

    However, despite the setback of lies and propaganda, reports can still be found of Macedonian existence which was recorded by foreigners. Even those that harboured an obvious grudge or denial against the Macedonian identity could not escape revealing important details which demonstrate the existence of the Macedonian people. The below sources show that the Macedonian people were not invisible, and despite the various forces trying to tear the nation apart, their existence was still recognized and acknowledged by various foreigners, antagonists included. Furthermore, the fact that the Macedonian people have their own history is appreciated, along with the Macedonian language and identity being the most natural to the people.

    Karl Hron (Austrian, publicist, 1890): It may be shown, from their history as well as from their language, that the Macedonians are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians, but rather a separate ethnic group….
    Georgi Bakalov (Bulgarian, 1890): In the villages of Macedonia, one meets peasants of a single nationality speaking a Slavic language and belonging to the Eastern Orthodox faith. Nine out of ten of these people, despite their being the subject of dispute between three adjoining countries, would reply in response to the question as go their nationality, that they were Macedonian.
    Paul Argyriades (French, socialst, 1896): The Macedonians do not want the kind of caresses which may strangle them. They want to remain Macedonians without any other epithet, guarding for themselves their beautiful Macedonia…………
    William Gladstone (British, prime minister, 1897): Why not Macedonia for the Macedonians, as well as Bulgaria for the Bulgarians and is Servia for the Servians?
    Regina Wyon (British, traveler-writer, 1903): We were a cosmopolitan gathering. There was Dr. S., a Roumanian, an Austrian ornithologist, a Scotchman, our innkeeper was a Macedonian, and two or three Montenegrins……… Macedonians, Greeks, and even pure-blooded Turks……….
    Pavlos Melas (Greek, soldier, 1904): Kotas (Konstantin Hristov) speaks Macedonian………..
    Spiros Melas (Greek, soldier, 1913): Occasionally, all of a sudden a village woman would step out and start swearing in her own difficult Macedonian language, then, our soldiers would surround her and offering her money would demand bread, wine, brandy or oil.
    Rene Picard (French, 1916): There is and, in fact, there has always been a Macedonian spirit in Macedonia.
    R.A Reiss (French, 1918): It is a fact that the Macedonian language is spoken neither in Sofia nor in Belgrade. It is an individual Slav language…………
    Sister Augustine Bewicke (British, st paul’s hospital, salonika, 1919): The Greeks will not admit the Slav language in Churches or schools; the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority Slavs; they call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control…….
    Antoine Meillet (French, linguist, 1928): Their dialects, differing among themselves, are not truly Serbian nor truly Bulgarian, especially if one is thinking of written Bulgarian, which is based on dialects quite far removed from the Macedonian dialects…..In reality these dialects do not properly belong to either the one or the other of the two groups under dispute………..
    Henri Barbusse (French, writer, 1930): The Macedonians, who have their own separate language and indisputable ethnic originality…..
    Penelope Delta (Greek, writer, 1937): Their language was the same, Macedonian, also a blend of Slav and Greek, mixed with Turkish words. As in the Byzantine era, the populations were so mixed that it was difficult to tell apart a Greek from a Bulgarian - the two dominant races. Their only national consciousness was the Macedonian one.
    H.D Harrison (British, writer, 1938): The majority were Slav by origin, possibly belonging to a separate race akin to both Serbs and Bulgars but identical to neither ………..So intense was this propaganda that the three sons of one man, who had each been to a different school, actually claimed each a different nationality – one Serb, one Bulgar and one Greek – while the father himself claimed to be “Macedonian”………. ……………. There was a strong element in Macedonia which wanted autonomy for that province. They considered that they were neither Serbs nor Bulgars, but an independent Slav race with different traits from either of those two peoples, their own language, literature, and traditions.
    Andre Vaillant (French, slavicist, 1938): The concept of "Macedonian Slavic" is confusing only for those who want it to be. Macedonian Slavic is to such an extent a reality that there existed in the nineteenth century a Macedonian literary language, the language of a quite limited scholarly literature but of a voluminous popular literature..........
    Georgi Canev (Bulgarian, literary historian, 1946): Today the fatherland of the Miladinov brothers is a free and equal member of Tito's Federal Yugoslavia. The Macedonian nation is in confident control of its own fate, speaks and studies in the Macedonian language, is building up its own culture. It has already all the social, political and cultural conditions which Goce Delcev, Jane Sandanski, Dimo Hadz'i Di mov and many other sons of Macedonia dreamed of and fought for……………

    Regardless of what any Bulgarian, Greek or Serb produces as measly 'evidence' to deny the existence of another people (Macedonians), the testimony of several non-Macedonians says otherwise, and our existence today closes the book on any argument of whether or not a Macedonian nation exists.
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
  • Daskalot
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 4345

    #2
    this is a very good collection of quotes, thank you SoM for collecting them. Bravo!
    Macedonian Truth Organisation

    Comment

    • Pelister
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2742

      #3
      American missionaries visiting Macedonia when it was still under Ottoman rule explored the entire country in the 1830's, 1840's and 1850's.

      They expected to find Greeks, instead they discovered that the Christian population was overwhelmingly Macedonian, and furthermore, that the monasteries at Holy Mountain, were almost all Macedonian.

      In addition to that they established that the people in European Turkey were calling themselves Macedonians - they said that the Macedonians all spoke in closely related dialects.

      Sources:
      The Truth about Macedonia, American Missionaries Testimony, Indiana, U.S.A, 1964
      Vasil Bogov, Macedonian Revelation, p.133, p.134

      Comment

      • Demos
        Banned
        • Dec 2008
        • 325

        #4
        I agree these are a very good collection of quotes. I enjoyed reading the following:

        Sister Augustine Bewicke (British, st paul’s hospital, salonika, 1919): The Greeks will not admit the Slav language in Churches or schools; the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority Slavs; they call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control…….

        H.D Harrison (British, writer, 1938): The majority were Slav by origin, possibly belonging to a separate race akin to both Serbs and Bulgars but identical to neither ………..So intense was this propaganda that the three sons of one man, who had each been to a different school, actually claimed each a different nationality – one Serb, one Bulgar and one Greek – while the father himself claimed to be “Macedonian”………. ……………. There was a strong element in Macedonia which wanted autonomy for that province. They considered that they were neither Serbs nor Bulgars, but an independent Slav race with different traits from either of those two peoples, their own language, literature, and traditions.

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #5
          What a wonderful SLAVIC language it is. The Macedonians helped spread it over more than half of Europe. Very quickly I might add. I have no problem with being related linguistically to any and all Slavic races. But miserable little Greeks want to use it as an identifier in the country's name. It is the only reason you make these petty observations. And no other country in the world has that identifier in its name, mainly due to the fact that it simply is not necessary. Feel free to remind me why you think it has any relevance to Macedonians?

          So, keep playing with your toys and broken down ideologies while the real work gets done. Human rights are all the rage right now ... keep that in mind for whats left of the 21st century.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #6
            Originally posted by Demos View Post
            I agree these are a very good collection of quotes. I enjoyed reading the following:

            Sister Augustine Bewicke (British, st paul’s hospital, salonika, 1919): The Greeks will not admit the Slav language in Churches or schools; the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority Slavs; they call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control…….

            H.D Harrison (British, writer, 1938): The majority were Slav by origin, possibly belonging to a separate race akin to both Serbs and Bulgars but identical to neither ………..So intense was this propaganda that the three sons of one man, who had each been to a different school, actually claimed each a different nationality – one Serb, one Bulgar and one Greek – while the father himself claimed to be “Macedonian”………. ……………. There was a strong element in Macedonia which wanted autonomy for that province. They considered that they were neither Serbs nor Bulgars, but an independent Slav race with different traits from either of those two peoples, their own language, literature, and traditions.
            Yeah, so did I.

            How about this one, did you enjoy 'reading' it:
            Spiros Melas (Greek, soldier, 1913): Occasionally, all of a sudden a village woman would step out and start swearing in her own difficult Macedonian language, then, our soldiers would surround her and offering her money would demand bread, wine, brandy or oil.
            Do you think those people in 1913 that despised the foreign Greek army had that same fantasy "feeling" your uncle has today?

            A "feeling" of being something doesn't change what you actually are, I can have a "feeling" that I am an Australian of the common Anglo type and walk around pretending to be descended from Captain Cook or a member of the first fleet, but that would mean I would be living a lie, like your Grkomani do in Greece, I will still be of Macedonian ethnic and linguistic origin, so will your Grkomani, regardless of how close to their hearts they hold this false identity forced upon them through years of church and state propaganda.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Demos
              Banned
              • Dec 2008
              • 325

              #7
              Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
              What a wonderful SLAVIC language it is. The Macedonians helped spread it over more than half of Europe. Very quickly I might add. I have no problem with being related linguistically to any and all Slavic races. But miserable little Greeks want to use it as an identifier in the country's name. It is the only reason you make these petty observations. And no other country in the world has that identifier in its name, mainly due to the fact that it simply is not necessary. Feel free to remind me why you think it has any relevance to Macedonians?

              So, keep playing with your toys and broken down ideologies while the real work gets done. Human rights are all the rage right now ... keep that in mind for whats left of the 21st century.
              Risto,

              In Greece we have Macedonian Greeks as well. Many more than the Republic of Macedonia has. Of course you dispute this, but that's your opinion and right to do so. The reason we use the term Slavic is:

              1. Because the language you speak is indeed Slavic
              2. To differentiate between our Macedonians and yours.

              It is not meant as a racist remark. The Serbs are Slavs and we have excellent relations with them.

              As per human rights. It is a well known fact that "human rights" in today's world are mere tools in order to blackmail and break up other countries. Serbia was torn to pieces by the US and it's lapdogs for human rights violations of the Kosovar Albanians. Rome used the same "divide and conquer" method as did the English.

              We have seen this with the Turks in Thrace vis a vis Greco-Turkish relations and an attempt is being made by Macedonia to act as a self-appointed protector of whatever number of Macedonians reside in Greece. Of special note was the case with the military exercises in the village of Lofoi and Gruevski's statements and Macedonia's attempt to intervene in a clearly Greek internal matter.

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                #8
                Many of your Greek friends on this very forum have admitted they have good relations with Serbs, but STILL regard them as filthy Slavs. So spare me about niceties.

                You have your pitiful excuse for a dispute with "Greek Macedonians" ... I note you now want to call them "Macedonian Greeks" ... I honestly cannot see the confusion. Macedonians call themselves Macedonian. Greeks who wish to have some connection to Macedonia call themselves Greek Macedonians. Same tired bullshit from apologists like you. I note you do not have a place called Macedonia in Greece ... there is another thread on this. Do you have East Macedonian Greeks? Are we really talking about modern disputes here or are you still struggling with issues of antiquity here? Stupid Greek people playing stupid games.
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • osiris
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1969

                  #9
                  in macedonia you have the prosfigi and a few misguided wannabbe hellenes. there is no such thing as greek macedonian, there are greeks living in macedonia and there are macedonians. dont continue with this new found charade demos, have you no pride or sense of shame.

                  Comment

                  • The LION will ROAR
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 3231

                    #10
                    Quote:
                    Karl Hron (Austrian, publicist, 1890): It may be shown, from their history as well as from their language, that the Macedonians are neither Serbs nor Bulgarians, but rather a separate ethnic group….

                    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

                    Comment

                    • Dejan
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 589

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Demos View Post
                      1. Because the language you speak is indeed Slavic
                      2. To differentiate between our Macedonians and yours.
                      Our Macedonian language belongs to the slavic family of languages, and our ethnicity has always been and always will be Macedonian.

                      There is only one type of Macedonians - they call themselves Macedonians. If you have to differentiate 'your Macedonians' then you are not really Macedonian, and are not telling the truth.

                      This demos is racially insulting us. Why do we stand for it?
                      You want Macedonia? Come and take it from my blood!

                      A prosperous, independent and free Macedonia for Macedonians will be the ultimate revenge to our enemies.

                      Comment

                      • EgejskaMakedonia
                        Senior Member
                        • Jan 2010
                        • 1665

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Dejan View Post
                        Our Macedonian language belongs to the slavic family of languages, and our ethnicity has always been and always will be Macedonian.

                        There is only one type of Macedonians - they call themselves Macedonians. If you have to differentiate 'your Macedonians' then you are not really Macedonian, and are not telling the truth.

                        This demos is racially insulting us. Why do we stand for it?
                        Dejan, this thread is from 2008-09. Demos is long gone and was banned. I agree though, there should be no tolerance towards these people. Don't know why smart asses like him bother joining in the first place.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          #13
                          that's a great find lwr.
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

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