Dumb Macedonians

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  • Demos
    Banned
    • Dec 2008
    • 325

    #61
    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
    To a degree this is true today, but how can we ever determine this when Greece refuses to conduct a national census with regard to the ethnic and linguistic origins of her people? I doubt anybody has gone around asking all of Greece's citizens this question, and the loyalty felt towards a land in which most of the people were settled in during the 1920's from Asia does not compare to centuries of existence as people native to the land.

    During the American Revolution all parties spoke the English language so the comparison is not quite accurate. And correct me if I am wrong, but there were no Indians or Africans claiming to be pure 'Anglo' and/or descended from George Washington or Queen Elizabeth, were there?

    My point for bringing up the American Revolution was that both parties were ethnically English for the most part, yet when it came to political loyalty the colonists supported the Revolution and the English supported the crown.

    The same applies to most people in northern Greece of ethnic Macedonian background.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #62
      Originally posted by Demos View Post
      During the American Revolutionary War the reality was that most "Americans" were ethnically English, but that didn't hinder them from "feeling" a need to kill other English to advance their cause. Nationality goes way beyond DNA or ethnological makeup. So we can spend hours upon hours debating the subject as to what ethnological makeup are the inhabitants of x region.
      The reality is that the majority of people in the region of Macedonia in Greece feel loyalty to the Hellenic Republic as I'm sure the majority of people in the Republic of Macedonia feel loyalty to Macedonia. Ultimately, what's in their DNA does not matter.
      Demos, are you going to stick with an argument that the concept of Greek Nationality has nothing to do with antiquity? And that the debate about the Greekness of Macedonians has nothing to do with antiquity. It will be a change that many of us here would enjoy discussing.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Demos
        Banned
        • Dec 2008
        • 325

        #63
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        Demos, are you going to stick with an argument that the concept of Greek Nationality has nothing to do with antiquity? And that the debate about the Greekness of Macedonians has nothing to do with antiquity. It will be a change that many of us here would enjoy discussing.
        All I'm saying is that the notion of ethnicity and modern day nationalism as we understand it evolved in the late 17th to 18th century.

        Of course the concept of a nationality is based on a continuous presence from a cultural point of view. I don't think any nation on earth can claim a continuous ethnological presence especially in Europe with so many population movements and wars, but ultimately cultural heritage and cultural adaptation and cultural evolution supersedes any ethnological "purity" if you will.

        For example, I can read ancient and byzantine Greek as I can read modern Greek. I have a Greek national conscious. Can I claim direct ethnological decent from the ancient Greeks? Technically, I could claim it and I would have no way of proving it, nor has anyone any way of disproving it either.

        Comment

        • Svoliani
          Banned
          • Sep 2008
          • 93

          #64
          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
          She makes reference to a linguistic group, as you well know. She calls that group of 'Slavs' by the name they call themselves, MACEDONIANS.

          And Ed, for the sake of being on the same page, because I have no interest in going through the same rings with you time and again,

          Save your plastic 'Greek Macedonian' identity for when you are in Greece, for the next time you meet a 'Greek Athenian' or a 'Greek Spartan'.
          Im sorry i dont read it that way moj drug. She made a reference to the language in the previous sentence and she called it a Slav Language. She then states that the inhabitants are in a great part Slavs(not slavic speakers) and they call themselves Macedonians. So from what i read, the Macedonians are 'Slavs' Its the same with that ethnographic map that was posted where Macedonians were clearly depicted under the Slavic Race. Not to mention i can find you 121 other sources that will tell you the same thing. The sooner you make peace with yourself about this the better. If you believe that such a thing as a Slav or Slavic race doesnt exist, then i cant really debate with you, it would be pointless.
          Now i have to believe that Yugoslavia didnt mean 'land of the south slavs' but 'land of the south slavic speakers'

          'Just becuase i speak a slavic language doesnt make me a slav' you cant use that term, thats what 'dumb macedonians' say you know the Grecomans .

          As for Greek Spartans, they dont need to add the Greek in front because there isnt a another group of Spartans speaking a different language and also using that name as their ethnicity.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13670

            #65
            Originally posted by Svoliani
            She then states that the inhabitants are in a great part Slavs(not slavic speakers) and they call themselves Macedonians. So from what i read, the Macedonians are 'Slavs'
            What you read is upside down and back to front moj drugar, if the great majority of these people are Slavs, and they call themselves Macedonians, then the Slavs in Macedonia are the MACEDONIANS and not the other way around. Get it together Ed.
            As for Greek Spartans, they dont need to add the Greek in front because there isnt a another group of Spartans speaking a different language and also using that name as their ethnicity.
            So you are telling me that a person of ethnic Macedonian origin (as opposed to ethnic Greek) with roots from Voden (Edessa) who was born in the town of Pylos in Sparta and lived there all of his life, would logically (according to you) go around Greece and say, "Hi, I am a Macedonian Spartan" - That's sound pretty stupid Ed. Tell me mate, is that stupid? Isn't your interpretation of 'Greek Macedonian' stupid?

            And Ed, when one speaks a Slavic language in Greek-occupied Macedonia it is Macedonian, that is the language their ancestors spoke, now some clown has a "feeling" and that all changes overnight? Give me a break, take a look in the mirror and slap yourself out, your self concocted history is a sham, enough with the lies.
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Sarafot
              Member
              • Dec 2008
              • 616

              #66
              So Demos what are thouse?Greeks?
              YouTube - Za progonetite i makedoncite vo Lerinsko-Ateatos Kosmos1-del
              YouTube - Za progonetite i makedoncite vo Lerinsko-Ateatos Kosmos 2-del

              give them Ps3 and Nike shues and they will forgot it?Wright?
              Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
              - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

              Comment

              • Sarafot
                Member
                • Dec 2008
                • 616

                #67
                Originally posted by Svoliani View Post
                Sister Augustine Bewicke (British, st paul’s hospital, salonika, 1919): The Greeks will not admit the Slav language in Churches or schools; the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority Slavs; they call themselves Macedonians, and what they desire and what we ardently desire for them is an autonomy under European control…….

                Demos uncle, Terra Novas family and my family dont fall into this category. So we are Greek Macedonians, its simple.

                And whoever posted this quote should ban themsleves. I found it in another section.
                'the inhabitants of Macedonia are in the great majority SLAVS????
                Sister Sister how could you say such a thing

                Do you know any nation called them self Slavs?Do you call your language Romanian,becouse i was learned in school that ITALIAN ROMANIAN and GREEK languages are ROMANIAN languages!
                So are you guys Romanic nation,just like we are Slavic nations,just becouse lanuage tree description?
                Man you are realy confused!!
                Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
                - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #68
                  Sarafot thank you for that. They are some very powerful videos which show the undeniable truth of the existence and suffering of the Macedonian people in Greece.
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • osiris
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1969

                    #69
                    this is a fantastic resource it must be translated into english, and reposted on utube.

                    Comment

                    • Sarafot
                      Member
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 616

                      #70
                      Originally posted by osiris View Post
                      this is a fantastic resource it must be translated into english, and reposted on utube.
                      I think it is!That Tv is in ''sopstvenost'' of Đorđ-Georgija
                      Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
                      - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

                      Comment

                      • Risto the Great
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 15658

                        #71
                        They were very powerful youtube links Sarafot.
                        I even know one of those people.
                        And can vouch for the authenticity as a result.
                        Risto the Great
                        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                        Comment

                        • Sarafot
                          Member
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 616

                          #72
                          Here is one about languages of Ellada!

                          YouTube - Jazicite vo Grcija - Protagonistes 23-04-2002
                          Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
                          - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

                          Comment

                          • Rogi
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 2343

                            #73
                            Sarafot, that last one is fantastic!

                            The 'Greeks' themselves will lead to their own undoing.

                            Comment

                            • Demos
                              Banned
                              • Dec 2008
                              • 325

                              #74
                              Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                              Sarafot, that last one is fantastic!

                              The 'Greeks' themselves will lead to their own undoing.
                              Rogi,

                              Sometimes I read about forumers comments pertaining to how Greece or x country will eventually dissolve into pieces or break up for whatever reason and all I can do is laugh, because I find such talk very comical and best left for the coffee houses of Athens, Skopje, and Sofia.

                              Let's try and stick to reality and leave aside wishful thinking.

                              Comment

                              • Sarafot
                                Member
                                • Dec 2008
                                • 616

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                                Sarafot, that last one is fantastic!

                                The 'Greeks' themselves will lead to their own undoing.
                                Look bro,i realy dont hate greeks,if some one commes on my way and say to may face that i dont existe,i will probebly crash his face to ''parčinja''
                                but steel i accept them as our orthodox cousins,i just want them to admite our truth,i dont want them to colapse,just simple thing,to admit the truth!

                                Is that so hard?
                                Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
                                - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

                                Comment

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