Possible Etymology of Alexander

[spitfire]

As for the meaning of Alex- I have given examples in greek and also what the name means in greek. I don't see a meaning of the name in another language.
The root of the word also is common with "αλκή" . This means power in ancient greek.

In "lexiplasia" (which means molding of words) the use of alex- is still apparent.
Besides the use of alex- in antiquity, that formed the compound name of alexander giving it a meaning unlike other languages, let me give a couple examples more of words not of antiquity.

Αλεξινέμιο: That's windshield
Αλεξιβρόχιο: That's umbrella

As you see the signifier and the signified is present in every case in greek for this name. No other language can do this. And when other languges have the "Ξ" depicted as one letter, they use one letter.

[spitfire]

That was painful to read

We never denied the existence of the Greek language.
The Greeks deny the existence of a Macedonian language and label it as Bulgarian; when we all know from a HUGE amount of sources we have on this forum it was in fact Macedonian, including the Lexicon.
That tablet means nothing, it's from the Ancient period, and it's funny how you compare that to a lexicon, when your first statement was that the Macedonian lexicon had only 300 words.
Even then, it's irrelevant, you can learn a language which exists, you can't learn a language which doesn't. I hope you can see the sarcasm involved within the bold region.
Furthermore, we know the Macedonians spoke a language back than that was too distinct to be a dialect.
We know the Macedonians could speak Greek (Mediterranean language), a lingua-franca, hence the reason why these coins are in Greek in the first place, and for the same reason why they need to be able to communicate with outsiders.
It would also be a shame to create a piece of art, or a tablet for communication, for it to not be able to understood by the rest of the world.
What do you think the Macedonians used to communicate to the Romans, Persians and the upper area's of Macedonia? Koine.

Why is this relevant? It's not. You're going since all we're doing is trying to do linguistic analysis. But you're denying the possibility of the Macedonian language being a possible entity of it.
Hence why I wrote the stuff at the start of this post.

We don't know how distinct it was. Haven't you been reading the latest posts?
Furthermore all this withouth findings of evidence is based on imagination.

I know about the common language (koine, that's what it means) the standardization of how greek was spoken in all areas of the time. You are getting the discussion to a previous point. Read the latest posts about the language. Philosopher and I have found common ground and agree in many things.

[Nikolaj]

We don't know how distinct it was. Haven't you been reading the latest posts?
Furthermore all this withouth findings of evidence is based on imagination.

I know about the common language (koine, that's what it means) the standardization of how greek was spoken in all areas of the time. You are getting the discussion to a previous point. Read the latest posts about the language. Philosopher and I have found common ground and agree in many things.

Never to forget, a lot of Greek history is speculation.

Yes, I never obliged to your and his agreement.

I do too agree with it, as you can see, your and his conversation is newer than what me and you were discussing, it's just that it has extended to this period in time.

I am no longer talking about this, it was mainly to come to a common ground and clearly we have reached it.

Off to uni for now, i'll be back later tonight.

[Philosopher]

Everyone agrees that the name “Alexandros” is Greek. We all can also agree that not everyone in the ancient world who had the name “Alexandros” was Greek.

Now the question at hand is not the meaning of the word “Alexandros”. The meaning of this name is not in doubt. It is composed of “Alex” and “Andros”. Andros comes from aner meaning “man”. So the name means “Defender or helper of man”.

This is not doubted.

What is to be doubted is whether Alexander the Great's name is Alexandros, as it is recorded by Greek writers, or whether his original name is Aleksandar or something similar to this.

The other question at hand is why the Babylonians translated his name “Aleksaandar”, and not “A-lek-sa-an-dar-ru-su”, which would be the equivalent to “Alexandros”. Was it because Alexander's name was “Aleksandar”, and that is how he was known to them, or was it for pronunciation reasons? Pronunciation reasons do not make sense.

Here is my point.

If Alexander's name is “Aleksandar”, and not “Alexandros”, then the argument can be made that the second part of Alexander's name (aner, andros) may mean something other than “man”. But then again, it may not. “Andar” may also, I would imagine, fit within the root word “aner”, but I think it less probable.

“Andreas”, for example, means “manly”. Obviously, “andar” is different than “Andreas” and even more different than “aner”. In Macedonian, we have the name “Andrej”, which is based on “Andreas”.

What is sticking about this, however, is that, similar to the Greek, “Andrej” seems to follow in the “dre” tradition of the Greek, but this is absent with “Aleksandar”.

In Macedonian, the ending “dar” means “gift”. “Lek” means to “cure, heal”, closely related to “medicine, drug”. But what appears unanswerable for the present is “san”, in “Aleksandar”. There may be meaning to this, but there may not have to be. For the present, it is difficult to state.

For example, in Greek the word for man is “aner”, but from this root word we get extensions such as “Andreas”, “Andros”, Andronicus”, et al.

Spitfire, do the letters “dre”, or “dro” mean anything in Greek? What purpose do they serve?

In Macedonian, Aleksandar may mean “A healing gift” or "Gift of healing".

[spitfire]

Philosopher,

You are starting to make words like "Napoleon". I told you before, this is not correct in linguistics.
Furthermore, if we take the very similar aleksandar and alexander as a case of names coming from different languages, then the close relation of the ancient macedonian to that of greek becomes very apparent. And it also makes a clue as to why there was koine for that matter. To give all the greek dialects a standard.

Are you sure you want to continue this?

As to the meaning of dro or dre, the genitive form of aner (ανήρ) is andros (αντρός).

[Philosopher]

Philosopher,

You are starting to make words like "Napoleon". I told you before, this is not correct in linguistics.
Furthermore, if we take the very similar aleksandar and alexander as a case of different names, then the close relation of the ancient macedonian to that of greek becomes very apparent. And it also makes a clue as to why there was koine for that matter. To give all the greek dialects a standard.

Are you sure you want to continue this?

As to the meaning of dro or dre, the genitive form of aner (ανήρ) is andros (αντρός).

Well, first let me state that all I'm doing is presenting an alternative theory. I cannot state that something resembling Slavic was even in the Balkans this early on in Balkan history, but I am working with the presumption that it is. The whole premise may be flawed.

Second, names are generally compositions of words. For example, George (geo=earth) and (ergos=worker). These are two separate words, but when used together, they form a name.

The same is true with the Bozidar or Bozhidar (bozy=divine) and (dar=gift).

And on and on and on.

So all I have done is applied the same principles to "Aleksandar", which if broken down would mean "Gift of healing" in Macedonian.

This is not presented as a fact, but as an alternative theory.

[Philosopher]

Philosopher,

Furthermore, if we take the very similar aleksandar and alexander as a case of names coming from different languages, then the close relation of the ancient macedonian to that of greek becomes very apparent. And it also makes a clue as to why there was koine for that matter. To give all the greek dialects a standard.

These are problematic statements. First of all, what gives you the impression, or more correctly, what evidence do you have that the ancient Macedonians used "Aleksandar" instead of "Alexandros". The only reason we have this alternative spelling is because of the various variants in Babylonia and Asia. South Slavic, which according to scholars came to the region many many centuries later, also followed suite with a similar variant as the Babylonian.

Yes, the names are similar, but you are suggesting that both names co-existed in ancient times and that both were Greek and that to harmonize the differences in Greek, a standard (Koine) was developed.

On what do you base this on?

[spitfire]

(Talking about bad luck. Today I don't get error messages but my internet provider is having problems).

Philosopher,
You said lek means healing, not alek, am I correct? So you are still missing the first letter and three more in the middle.
This is a theory (from the greek Θεωρώ which means I regard and comes from Θωρώ which means I see) as you can see it has a lot of problems.

[Amphipolis]

In Macedonian, the ending “dar” means “gift”. “Lek” means to “cure, heal”, closely related to “medicine, drug”.

Do you know anything about the recent history (last 10 centuries) and evolution of these words in Slavic literature? Can you provide their cyrilic spelling? Can you tell us what their variants are (if any) in Bulgarian, Serbian, Russian, Polish etc, or in Old Church Slavonic?

That would be a good start.

[spitfire]

These are problematic statements. First of all, what gives you the impression, or more correctly, what evidence do you have that the ancient Macedonians used "Aleksandar" instead of "Alexandros". The only reason we have this alternative spelling is because of the various variants in Babylonia and Asia. South Slavic, which according to scholars came to the region many many centuries later, also followed suite with a similar variant as the Babylonian.

Yes, the names are similar, but you are suggesting that both names co-existed in ancient times and that both were Greek and that to harmonize the differences in Greek, a standard (Koine) was developed.

On what do you base this on?

I don't have another impression nor am I suggesting that. Now you say that Alexander is also in macedonian? I thought you meant that in macedonian it was aleksandar.
Apologies if I miscomprehended the meaning of what you said.

So we agree that aleksandar or alessandro is the way languages have to depict as closely as they can the name alexandros?

[Amphipolis]

Spitfire,

I don't think anyone (except for me) understands a thing when you type words in Greek. A Latin transliteration (in parenthesis) should always be provided.

[spitfire]

Spitfire,

I don't think anyone (except for me) understands a thing when you type words in Greek. A Latin transliteration (in parenthesis) should always be provided.

Thanks.

Theory (from greek theoro) which means I regard (and comes from greek thoro which means I see) was the last thing I wrote.

[Philosopher]

Spitfire,

I don't think anyone (except for me) understands a thing when you type words in Greek. A Latin transliteration (in parenthesis) should always be provided.

Not so. I understand it.

[Philosopher]

I don't have another impression nor am I suggesting that. Now you say that Alexander is also in macedonian? I thought you meant that in macedonian it was aleksandar.
Apologies if I miscomprehended the meaning of what you said.

So we agree that aleksandar or alessandro is the way languages have to depict as closely as they can the name alexandros?

Let me explain.

I am working on the presupposition that something resembling Slavic was spoken in the Balkans and that this language was the indigenous language of the ancient Macedonians (not Greek), and that in this language they had a name called "Aleksandar" and that this name is not related to the Greek "Alexandros", and that the Greeks, when referring to Alexander the Great, called him "Alexandros", which is a Greek name. The two names are similar (Alexandros and Aleksandar) but they are two different names with different meanings.

I cannot prove any of this. It is all conjecture.

Therefore, here is my point. If Aleksandar was his name, and this is based on something akin to Slavic, then maybe, just maybe, its meaning can be deciphered in modern Macedonian, similar to how "Alexandros" can be deciphered with modern Greek.

You said lek means healing, not alek, am I correct? So you are still missing the first letter and three more in the middle.
This is a theory (from the greek Θεωρώ which means I regard and comes from Θωρώ which means I see) as you can see it has a lot of problems.

Well, yes and no. If the name can broken down in modern Macedonian you would have to start with the presupposition that the name is of Slavic origin and you would have to break it apart thus "A-lek-san-dar".

A would simply mean "a".
Lek would mean "cure, heal".
San would mean ______
Dar would mean "gift".

San is the problem for the present.

Let me add a few points here. There are many words shared in indo European languages which are spelled the same but have very different meanings and origins. The point being is that just because one can decipher a name with a foreign alphabet does not mean that the word is indigenous in another language. Words can be deciphered with different languages. This does not make these interpretations valid, however.

[Philosopher]

I cannot prove any of this. It is all conjecture.

Let me clarify something. This thread started with the article about the Babylonian spelling of Alexander. In cuneiform, it is spelled "Aleksaandar". There can only be two reasons for this variation. Either that is the correct spelling of Alexander's name, or the Babylonians did not want to use the Greek variant. If so, the question is why.

Working on the assumption that the Babylonians spelled it as "Aleksaandar" because that is the correct rendering of Alexander's name, it would seem to suggest that the modern Macedonian rendering "Aleksandar" is the original.

Hence, our endeavors to discern the etymology of Alexander.