Greek Nationalism Out of Control

[George S.]

King Niko you echo my sentiments as well a lot of greeks left Greece for a better life in other countries .The old hatreds of race etc are no longer relevant as people realise that its a myth perpetuated by the govt and by the use of nationalism and lies.

[King Niko]

King Niko you echo my sentiments as well a lot of greeks left Greece for a better life in other countries .The old hatreds of race etc are no longer relevant as people realise that its a myth perpetuated by the govt and by the use of nationalism and lies.

I feel bad for diaspora Greeks, most are considered "unworthy" in Greece, and many make fun or bash them for not being in "Greece", that too be Greek you are either born in Greece, or you can not be one.

I have seen and heard that hundreds of times.

That is why Greece is falling apart, but you see Albania grow in unity, all Albanians consider themselves Albanian, while all Greeks fight each other.

and yes I agree with you.

[George S.]

KN it gets crazier as people calling themselves greek are asked to consider themselves as hellenes and invoke a lot of nationalism and patriotic feeling and frenzy that spreads to the diaspora,All behave like true fanatics simply of the indoctrination and assimilation and to believe the greekness of greeks.There is no room for complacency or compromise or capitulation .That seems to be expectation of the fyrom to give in to the greeks.

[Momce Makedonce]

Well from what I notice, I can not prove this with any links so regard this more "personal opinion" not a "fact", but from my view upon Greeks, unlike neighboring nations, like Albania, Macedonia, Bulgaria is that most Greeks use politics as their "ethnic" group per say.

Not literally but through this, I notice something that, Golden Dawn fight with Anarchist through the use of saying you are not Greek,

and many Greeks from the south tend to look at the north and try and proclaim they are different then Athens Greeks, and that Epirus Greeks are different then Thracian Greeks, and they all have a bit of a stir of their own identity.

That is why the Greek state is just falling apart, its propaganda through the youth is not going to work anymore, or as well might I say.

The Greek identity is becoming blurred, just as it had been prior too 1821.

Fair enough, its not the first time I have heard this before. I find it interesting especially in regard to the perceived differences by Greeks in regards to the South and the North of the country. I find that although there seems to be a sense among Greeks that many people in Northern Greece are different on an ethnic/cultural basis, most Greeks will never admit it to anyone outside their own people.

I feel bad for diaspora Greeks, most are considered "unworthy" in Greece, and many make fun or bash them for not being in "Greece", that too be Greek you are either born in Greece, or you can not be one.

I think that is probably the mentality of many countries when it comes to their diaspora. Some Macedonians from the Republic are like this, but not to the extent that you mention in regards to Greeks.

[Tomche Makedonche]

I find it interesting especially in regard to the perceived differences by Greeks in regards to the South and the North of the country. I find that although there seems to be a sense among Greeks that many people in Northern Greece are different on an ethnic/cultural basis, most Greeks will never admit it to anyone outside their own people.

From my experience, Italians are the same, although some are happy to talk about it (usually those from the North)

[Momce Makedonce]

From my experience, Italians are the same, although some are happy to talk about it (usually those from the North)

Yeah I have also come across this, although I don`t know a lot about the divisions. I had a friend who identified somewhere between Italian and Sicilian.

[Amphipolis]

You must have a short memory.Let me refresh it by quoting you something a Greek author wrote about the matter (pay close attention to the bold words, which include Greek hysteria and removal of Greece from the EU):

Read up. Refresh yourself. You'll learn something about the hysteria, fanaticism, and nationalism of the Greeks in the 1990s and Europe's perception of Greece. I can provide you with all the necessary quotes of European politicians' views of Greece at the time. Greece was nuts throughout the entire 20th century; it still is.

My memory is fine, I was a student during the events, I was more active in politics then, than I am now, and I did not participate in the grant Thessaloniki rally because… I found it nationalistic! My… mother was there (probably the only demonstration of her life) and basically everybody was there, close to 1 million people.

Your phrase and this phrase …

____________________________
"Serious opinion-makers questioned openly the suitability of Athens running the European Union affairs for the first semester of 1994 and even suggested the removal of Greece from the Union altogether. In a flurry of tense diplomatic activity, the Greek government tried to explain its position amidst growing allegations that the countermeasures constituted flagrant breach of the country's obligations under international law and under European Community law, as a Member of the E.U."
_______________________________________

are problematic. To put it simply Greece or any other country of European Union CANNOT be "removed" FOR ANY REASON (especially for insignificant reasons). They can only leave European Union if they want to. What was really discussed is that an embargo is fundamentally against EU principles (which is all about free economy), but unfortunately United Kingdom had already enforced an embargo before Greece. Greece used it as an argument and even asked EU members for… solidarity in its’ national problems with third non-EU countries.

In short the "serious opinion-makers" were not talking seriously.




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[Amphipolis]

Great videos Vic.

Its sad that such reasonable and honest Greeks seem to have become extinct.

Does anyone know how Golden Dawn has been doing as a party since half it's MP's went to jail? Sometimes making people martyrs only intensifies support for them.

I agree that their persecution was politically wrong and also probably a crime (in legal terms). All the Members of Parliament are persecuted and were imprisoned (for up to 18 months). I think they are all out of jail now, being already trialed or waiting for a trial.

Golden Dawn jumped instantly from a 0,5% to about 6-7% in 2012. Their percentage has stayed exactly the same besides (or because of) the persecutions, and occasionally reaches 9% (in European Elections).
According to a New Law this is the only party that is not sponsored by State (until they clear their name in court). They are also (illegally) banned from TV! Furthermore, they are often not allowed to speak in public (by police order, under the argument that riots will be caused). I think almost all the MPs (which are in parole) are only allowed to speak in Parliament, not anywhere else!!!

[Gocka]

I'm glad you agree that the Two Greek politicians/scholars who claimed Greeks are in need "collective psychotherapy", are right. I appreciate the honesty.

Yes the Neo Nazis are so "persecuted". The reason they had to take such harsh measures with them is that if they let them go unchecked, you and your crazy delusional, and racist stock would bring all of Greece to its former military occupation glory days. Is it against democratic principles what they are doing to golden dawn, yes it is, but as long Greeks are closet Nazis the more sensible need to make sure that the entire country doesn't go up in flames.

The Golden dawn is a racist, radical, violent, Neo Nazi group, not a political party.

I agree that their persecution was politically wrong and also probably a crime (in legal terms). All the Members of Parliament are persecuted and were imprisoned (for up to 18 months). I think they are all out of jail now, being already trialed or waiting for a trial.

Golden Dawn jumped instantly from a 0,5% to about 6-7% in 2012. Their percentage has stayed exactly the same besides (or because of) the persecutions, and occasionally reaches 9% (in European Elections).
According to a New Law this is the only party that is not sponsored by State (until they clear their name in court). They are also (illegally) banned from TV! Furthermore, they are often not allowed to speak in public (by police order, under the argument that riots will be caused). I think almost all the MPs (which are in parole) are only allowed to speak in Parliament, not anywhere else!!!

[Amphipolis]

I'm glad you agree that the Two Greek politicians/scholars who claimed Greeks are in need "collective psychotherapy", are right. I appreciate the honesty.

I’ll disappoint you.

(a) I don’t know who politicians/scholars you’re talking about

(b) I don’t think Greeks are nationalists

(c) I don’t think nationalists are psychopaths

Yes the Neo Nazis are so "persecuted". The reason they had to take such harsh measures with them is that if they let them go unchecked, you and your crazy delusional, and racist stock would bring all of Greece to its former military occupation glory days. Is it against democratic principles what they are doing to golden dawn, yes it is, but as long Greeks are closet Nazis the more sensible need to make sure that the entire country doesn't go up in flames.

The Golden dawn is a racist, radical, violent, Neo Nazi group, not a political party.

Golden Dawn is certainly a legal political party. That’s undisputed. I know they’re not Neo Nazis or racists in a literal sense, or at least they don’t accept these terms. Other than that, I’m afraid, not much is known about their exact political position. They basically present themselves as “nationalists”. Are they a modern version of national-socialism? Not sure. They believe in staying in European Union, they’re Euro-skeptics, they are against New Order, pro-NATO and pro-Euro currency (until recently, I’m not very sure about that).

I certainly don’t agree that these harsh measures should be taken. Golden Dawn is certainly involved in systematic illegal actions, but there are LEGAL, legitimate and constitutional ways to deal with this.

[vicsinad]

Amphipolis:

I'm confused, so please help me out. First, you didn't consider the 1990s to be a nationalistic decade for Greece. Second, you didn't participate in demonstrations in Solun (which you claim a million people attended) because you found them to be nationalistic. Third, you claim Greeks are not nationalists. These seem to me to be conflicting statements about Greek nationalism in the 1990s and in general. Can you explain?

[George S.]

Use ofb terms like hekkenism to bring back nationalistic fervour.Greek presidents using nit in their speeches like you nare greeks etc linking the current people to the ancients.
All that Macedonia is /was greek bs they rubbed it in their psyche.Appeals regularly to greek nationalistic ideals.

[Gocka]

I originally commented on the videos, you commented on my comment and said I agree with you. The two Greeks I am talking about were in the video. I said it said that people like those two do not exist anymore in Greece, you said I agree.

As for golden dawn, they use a swastika, they have videos all over the internet doing Hail Furor salutes, they are a neo nazi group.

I’ll disappoint you.

(a) I don’t know who politicians/scholars you’re talking about

(b) I don’t think Greeks are nationalists

(c) I don’t think nationalists are psychopaths



Golden Dawn is certainly a legal political party. That’s undisputed. I know they’re not Neo Nazis or racists in a literal sense, or at least they don’t accept these terms. Other than that, I’m afraid, not much is known about their exact political position. They basically present themselves as “nationalists”. Are they a modern version of national-socialism? Not sure. They believe in staying in European Union, they’re Euro-skeptics, they are against New Order, pro-NATO and pro-Euro currency (until recently, I’m not very sure about that).

I certainly don’t agree that these harsh measures should be taken. Golden Dawn is certainly involved in systematic illegal actions, but there are LEGAL, legitimate and constitutional ways to deal with this.

[Amphipolis]

Amphipolis:

I'm confused, so please help me out. First, you didn't consider the 1990s to be a nationalistic decade for Greece. Second, you didn't participate in demonstrations in Solun (which you claim a million people attended) because you found them to be nationalistic. Third, you claim Greeks are not nationalists. These seem to me to be conflicting statements about Greek nationalism in the 1990s and in general. Can you explain?

The post 1980s era in Greece has been a period where “nationalism” is officially vilified and this approach covers about 95-98% of the political scenery. I wouldn’t call this period nationalistic. Most politicians even avoid the terms nation, national when they may have a far-right echo. The right-wing often calls this a period of left-wing ideological hegemony.

The Thessaloniki rally was something like an official protest, held by the Mayor and the Church (so that political parties are not directly involved) and basically everybody went there (including school children) to “tell the world that Macedonia is Greece/Greek”. The left wing parties did not participate, but the people’s readiness and enthusiasm was probably greater than expected. Maybe the message was misunderstood, they did not refer to your country and they did not mean we want to conquer you.

Use ofb terms like hekkenism to bring back nationalistic fervour.Greek presidents using nit in their speeches like you nare greeks etc linking the current people to the ancients.
All that Macedonia is /was greek bs they rubbed it in their psyche.Appeals regularly to greek nationalistic ideals.

What? Aren’t we Greeks or linked to the ancients?

I originally commented on the videos, you commented on my comment and said I agree with you. The two Greeks I am talking about were in the video. I said it said that people like those two do not exist anymore in Greece, you said I agree.

Uh… Nikos Dimou still exists. He would be more active politically (probably elected with the River Party) but some older treasonous comments were reminded and after a few days he had to resign. He sarcastically calls himself anti-Greek and still works systematically in undermining the Greek thesis in several issues. This type of people (e.g. Dimitris Lithoxoou) if you ask them, lately identify themselves as Europeans, not Greeks.

Michael Papaconstantinou is dead. He presents himself as a moderate Foreign Minister of Mitsotakis Government after Samaras resignation. Mitsotakis has stated afterwards that he wanted to and could have achieved a deal with a name like “Macedonia of Skopje” or “Macedonia-Skopje”, but Samaras didn’t let him. I’m not sure that would be realistic. It wouldn’t pass.

I don’t know if Karakassidou is a drama-queen, she genuinely looks like she is afraid or she has lost it. What on earth is she talking about a Hollywood film that would be inspired by her murder? What the hell was that? First of all, Karakassidou never lived in Greece, though she often visited it. I think, meanwhile, she has published (at least) one more similar book and I remember having read a big part of it.

Stohos (the Target) is a weekly marginal far-right newspaper and I think it still exists.

The presenter DOES show the Greek community of Albania, but his claim that Greece is aiming to attack Albania is ridiculous. At least that is proven, since 20 years have passed since the video.

As for golden dawn, they use a swastika, they have videos all over the internet doing Hail Furor salutes, they are a neo nazi group.

Golden Dawn does not use the Swastika and basically avoid the fascist salute, though there have been instances and photographic documents. Metaxas regime was also using the fascist salute.

So, what exactly is a Greek neo-nazi? Someone who fights for a greater Germany in a United Europe?



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[George S.]

How about when the greek president mitsotakis went on a campaign of travel telling greeks of their gteekness and yheir so called heritage links.There is always a lot of nationalism.THat is the only link to hold them .