Kokino, Oldest Civilisation in the Balkans

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  • The LION will ROAR
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 3231

    #16




    Megalithic Observatory Kokino-part 1


    Megalithic Observatory Kokino-part 2


    NewsFlash-KOKINO observatory-4000years of MACEDONIAN CULTURE
    The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

    Comment

    • The LION will ROAR
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 3231

      #17
      Here is something I found on the NET.....

      KOKINO and the SCRIPT
      They have found inscriptions similar to those of the VINCA and DANUBE cultures which date as far as 6000 BC.

      Take a look at this:



      "The Vinča Culture derives its name from the village of Vinča, located on the banks of Danube, 14 km downstream from Belgrade (at the 1145th nautical kilometer), where one of the largest and most significant prehistoric Neolithic settlements in Eastern Europe was discovered in 1908 by a archaeological excavation team led by Miloje M. Vasić, the first schooled archeologist in Serbia."

      "The Neolithic settlers of Vinča ascribed great importance to spiritual life as is reflected by the enormous number of cult objects (figurines, sacrificial dishes, anthropomorphic and zoomorphic dishes). Their artistic and stylistic development was conditioned by the teachings of old settlers, as well as by contacts with neighboring peoples and their beliefs. Anthropomorphic figurines have a characteristic dignified stance and their number (over 1000 examples at Vinča alone) exceeds the total number of figurines discovered in the Greek Aegean. Shrines were discovered in Parṭa Transylvania with complex architectural designs. Some figurines and ceramic dishes discovered in the broad region spanning from Gornja Tuzla to Tǎrtǎria bear signs which some scholars suppose to be primitive forms of writing (see Old European Script). Indeed, if the inscriptions on the Tǎrtǎria tablets are pictograms, as Vlassa argued, they would be the earliest known writing in the world. This claim however remains controversial; most experts consider the Tǎrtǎria finds to be an example of PROTO-WRITING rather than a full writing system."



      Now, there are scientists who have managed to find a STRIKING similarity between these PROTO-WRITING signs and modern day CYRILLIC script. Take a look at the following study by Vasil Iljov:



      Now, the issue with the Cyrillic is that it is falsely believed, like everything else, that it derives from the Greek! In fact we know that the Greek derives from the Phoenician script, which on the other hand is dated as far as the 1400's BC.

      The Vinca culture shows a much older SCRIPT dated as far as 6000 BC. IT is more logical to say that the Phoenicians, and then consequently the Greeks have taken the alphabet (the phonetic one) from the people of the Vinca culture, rather than the other way round.

      To this we can add the mysterious RUENICA SCRIPT, found on the wooden bar no.15 from the wooden book from 567 A.D. with the author's name and surname T'rp Ruen, which resembles the Cyrillic script to a great extent:





      This shows that the Vinca script has been in continuous use on the Balkans prior to the introduction of the Cyrillic script by Ss.Clement and Naum of Ohrid, who called this script Cyrillic in honor of their teacher Ss.Cyril of Salonika!

      Here are some other artifacts bearing the same Vinca script dated from various periods!!!







      The most striking of all artifacts, that I have used as a motif in my poetry book titled as Living Rock, is the following, found on a clay plate in Gradesnica a village in south-west Macedonia, which according to Marija Gimbutas, dates back to c.5000 BC. According to Bulgarian archaeologists, it dates back to c. 3500 BC.:





      They call it the Gradesnica script in some circles:



      Well, if we compare this ANCIENT script with the modern day Cyrillic we get a message that goes like this:

      "HIDE NOW
      PEOPLE, BAD AS DOGS
      WHO COME DISGUISED,
      ARE COMING AGAIN"

      In original:

      Skrij se s'g
      Loshi ljudi ps'ni
      koi inji idu
      shire id't p'g

      Or in modern day Macedonian:

      Skirij se sega
      loshi lugje pseta
      koi poinakvi idat
      shirum idat pak

      This message is at least 5000 years old!!!

      To this we can add the fact that the Glagollic script introduced by the Solunian brothers did not take roots in the Slavic world. It was only installed in the Ohrid school, probably to pose as a mask for the true mission of the Slavic teachers, which was to revive an even more ancient script such as the Vinca script, or the Gradesnica script, or the Ruenica script, or in a single phrase "the ancient Macedonian script". However the reconstructed ancient script, which was probably in secret use by the mystics of the ancient times, was well accepted by the Slavic speaking world due to its magical implication!

      Let me clarify!

      And this is purely my standpoint: I believe that the brothers form Solun when they were given the mission to teach the Bible in Slavic to the people of Moravia, they had to develop a new script! This was due to the fact that the tri-linguals, or the priesthood that supported the use of the three holy scripts only, i.e. the Jewish, Greek and Latin, would strongly oppose the use of an ANCIENT, or as observed in those rigid Christian times, a PAGAN script such as the Cyrillic, or the Gradesnica script!

      Now, the brothers were clever and they managed to convince the Pope in Rome that the Glagollic was not much different from the Greek script, and therefore of Divine nature, suitable for the Word of God to be preached to the pagans in Moravia in their language! The Pope agreed to let the brothers preach the Bible in Slavic written with the Glagollic, and the Ohrid school took up the task of being the center for the Glagollic literacy!

      While the Solunian brothers were spreading the Glagollic, at the SAME TIME, their students were "simplifying" the Glagollic into what is today known as the Cyrillic script! However, the Cyrillic had to spread and take roots away from the eyes of the tri-linguals, because if they noticed that the Macedonian priests were teaching the Bible in a PAGAN script, they would condemn their work and force the Pope to do the same! This would have been tragic to the Christian mission of the brothers and the Macedonian priests, their students, Clement and Naum of Ohrid!

      Therefore, Cyril's students were instructed to offer the "new" script, or the pagan script, later to be known as Cyrillic, to the Bulgarian Khan Boris, who was of Tatar or Mongolic origin, very alien to the Byzantine Christian society, and who was facing the risk to lose his kingdom on behalf of the Byzantine Christianity, on the grounds that he was a pagan, moreover, an Asiatic one, who would probably earn the hostility of all Christians as such.

      Therefore, Clement managed to convince the Khan to convert into Christianity and take the Cyrillic script as an official script of his new Christian Kingdom, in this way avoiding direct influence from Byzantium, and securing independent existence of his kingdom, within the family of Christian societies of Europe, at that time.

      While to the Bulgarian Mongolic King, the Christening was a political move, to the Macedonian priests it was a spiritual mission to preserve an ancient script, used in the region since ages forgotten, and in that way to give sounding to the most ancient of all the languages that have been preserved in its purest form, the Macedonian language!!!

      Clever, isn't it?

      In this way the mission of the Macedonian priests was to preserve both the SCRIPT and the LANGUAGE of the ancient Macedonians, in the secluded Bulgarian society until better times arrive for all the people to know the implication of this holy mission!!!

      Now, the implication of this comes after asking the question: What did the brothers from Solun and their students from Ohrid KNOW about this script, the Cyrillic, that forced them to go through this admirable odyssey, in order for us to enjoy the privilege of speaking the most ancient of all languages and use the most ancient of all the scripts!!!

      My personal opinion is that they knew its origins better then we do! And I believe it has to do with Atlantis!
      The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

      Comment

      • vojnik
        Member
        • Apr 2011
        • 307

        #18
        WOW TLWR very interesting information!! Thanks for all that! I wonder what SoM thinks about the scripts etc he seems to have extensive knowledge on linguistics.

        Comment

        • The LION will ROAR
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 3231

          #19
          Originally posted by vojnik View Post
          WOW TLWR very interesting information!! Thanks for all that! I wonder what SoM thinks about the scripts etc he seems to have extensive knowledge on linguistics.
          Yes hopefully SOM can comment on it... as I don't specialise in linguistics...then again I don't specialise in anything...lol
          The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

          Comment

          • George S.
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2009
            • 10116

            #20
            yeah he can throw some light on it as to the scripts it would be most interesting.Som knows a lot.well i contacted him if can do it all the better.
            Last edited by George S.; 11-03-2011, 03:29 AM. Reason: ed
            "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
            GOTSE DELCEV

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #22
              Vojnik/TLWR/GeorgeS, I find the below part interesting and worthy of further exploration, but I would think it makes more sense in the following order Vinca -> Phoenician -> Greek -> Cyrillic (of course with great variations and added elements, if that is how it actually evolved). There is nothing to suggest a direct link from Vinca to Cyrillic as far as I am aware.
              The Vinca culture shows a much older SCRIPT dated as far as 6000 BC. IT is more logical to say that the Phoenicians, and then consequently the Greeks have taken the alphabet (the phonetic one) from the people of the Vinca culture, rather than the other way round.
              The problem is, languages change and evolve, particularly when they don't have a consistent and continual literature, and even then, they are subject to change. Thus, it is extremely difficult to accurately determine the sound for each character, let alone how the words would have sounded. The works on Linear B may be of some use given the similarity of a few symbols, but still, even they aren't concrete and we're talking about inscriptions that were made circa 8000 years ago. I have touched on this subject on the below thread:

              In the 1950's, Michael Ventris put forth his theory for deciphering Linear B, an alphabet used for a language that has been attributed to the Mycenaeans. Ventris, an architect and classical scholar, received great support from Cambridge's John Chadwick, and his works gained acceptance in the greater scholar community as the


              As for Vasil Iljov's 'decipherments', here is what I think:

              YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - ancient Macedonian inscriptions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L45fHRSdJjw&feature=related) YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - 9000years old MACEDONIAN STAMP (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuERDcTok94&feature=related) YouTube - VASIL ILJOV - HERODOT (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O3laGASQcY&f
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • vojnik
                Member
                • Apr 2011
                • 307

                #23
                Do you or anyone on this forum believe that the Vinca culture is in somewhat associated with the Macedonian one?

                Comment

                • Soldier of Macedon
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 13670

                  #24
                  There is a distant historical association, but there is also about 8000 years of evolution from then till now. What sort of cultural association are you thinking of?
                  In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    #25
                    Originally posted by vojnik View Post
                    Do you or anyone on this forum believe that the Vinca culture is in somewhat associated with the Macedonian one?
                    vojnik, what are your own views about the vinca...?

                    Comment

                    • vojnik
                      Member
                      • Apr 2011
                      • 307

                      #26
                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      There is a distant historical association, but there is also about 8000 years of evolution from then till now. What sort of cultural association are you thinking of?
                      I was thinking if the Macedonian and Vinca culture draw any similarities.

                      Originally posted by Phoenix View Post
                      vojnik, what are your own views about the vinca...?
                      The thing is I don't have any never really studied it. That's why I was asking members here about views on it. I'll spend the next few days studying it...

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #27
                        Originally posted by vojnik View Post
                        I was thinking if the Macedonian and Vinca culture draw any similarities.
                        I understand what you're saying, but to even begin discussing cultural similarities of a more specific nature we need to identify Vinca culture for the purpose of comparison with Macedonian. So I guess the next question is where do we start: Farming? Burials? Customs? Should we really be trying to find direct links to civilisations from several thousand years ago, or accept that our culture today is the product of continued cultural evolution in Macedonia, which includes (but is not limited to) the cultures from Vinca, Kokino, Kostur, etc? I think the latter is a better option and starting point.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • George S.
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2009
                          • 10116

                          #28
                          Well said SOM & thanks for informing us about the scripts.They reckon that the vinca is older than the sumerian & egyptian writings by thousands of years.I think as you say to try to associate vinca with macedonian needs more cooberation & evidence.I read that originally they came from anatolia someplace.
                          Last edited by George S.; 11-03-2011, 10:39 AM. Reason: edit
                          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
                          GOTSE DELCEV

                          Comment

                          • vojnik
                            Member
                            • Apr 2011
                            • 307

                            #29
                            Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                            I understand what you're saying, but to even begin discussing cultural similarities of a more specific nature we need to identify Vinca culture for the purpose of comparison with Macedonian. So I guess the next question is where do we start: Farming? Burials? Customs? Should we really be trying to find direct links to civilisations from several thousand years ago, or accept that our culture today is the product of continued cultural evolution in Macedonia, which includes (but is not limited to) the cultures from Vinca, Kokino, Kostur, etc? I think the latter is a better option and starting point.
                            I'd say yes today we'd except that Macedonia today is a product of a cultural evolution just like every other nation. What I should have asked is was there any similarities between the Ancient Macedonian culture and that of Vinca? Is the Vinca culture classed as part of the Ancient Macedonian culture? Or is Vinca a culture that influenced the Ancient Macedonians?

                            Comment

                            • The LION will ROAR
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 3231

                              #30
                              Кокино - едно од најмистичните места во светот



                              Македонија е средиште на најстарите цивилизации. Докази за ова тврдење има многу, а еден од најсилните е се разбира Кокино.



                              Место исполнето со мистика и траги од цивилизација од пред неколку илјади години.

                              Станува збор мегалитска опсерваторија која се наоѓа во атарот на селото Старо Нагоричане. Од Скопје е одалечено 50 километри воздушна линија, а од Куманово 35 километри.

                              Името го добива по најблиското село Кокино. Опсерваторијата случајно е откриена во 2001 година, од страна на бугарски и македонски археолози.



                              Мегалитската опсерваторија се наоѓа на неовулкански рид. Карпите се создадени со стврднувањето на лавата, која истекла од вулкански кратер. Времето и ерозијата направиле процепи и дел од тие процепи биле главните маркери низ кои се следеле циклусите на Сонцето и Месечината и се мерело времето. Камените маркери во минатото ги означувале местата за изгревање на Сонцето и Месечината во периодите на кусодневица, рамнодневица и долгодневица, како и нивните отклони. Местата на изгревање кои се опфаќаат со природните маркери на мегалитните стени во Кокино укажуваат дека изгревањата на исто место на Сонцето се повторуваат на 18,6 години. Веројатно некои членови на племенската заедница имале задача секојдневно да ги следат движењата на небесните тела и да прават календари за одредување на деновите за ритуалните обреди, како и за започнување на сезонските работи во земјоделството и сточарството.

                              Опсерваторијата е сместена на две скалести платформи од кои се следеле планетите. На горната платформа се пронајдени траги од неколку објекти и делови на керамика.

                              Кокино не е само опсерваторија, туку и светилиште и култура на луѓе што живееле во бронзениот период, од 18-ти до 20 век пред наша ера, во исто време со Минојците на Крит и со Хититите во Анадолија. Тоа го тврди Ѓоре Ценев, раководител на истражувањата на теренот во североисточна Македонија.

                              Локалитетите на Кокино ги исполнуваат сите светски стандарди за официјално да можат да се наречат светилишта - идентични се како оние што се наоѓаат на Блискиот Исток и на Медитеранот. Специфично е и тоа што светилиштата се наоѓаат меѓу две реки, Пчиња и Крива Река, што е правило и за другите светски светилишта. Сместени се на врвови на планини, чиј пристап е невозможен од три страни, поради стрмните или недостапни падини, истакнува Ценев.



                              Мегалитната опсерваторија во Кокино се вбројува меѓу највредните стари опсерватории во светот. Заради тоа, во 2005 година година, Американската вселенска агенција НАСА во листата од 15 вакви опсерватории во светот го рангираше Кокино на четвртото место.

                              Првите четири опсерватории според НАСА се:

                              1. Абу Симбел- Египет

                              2. Стоунхенџ- Велика Британија

                              3. Ангкор Ват- Камбоџа

                              4. Кокино- Република Македонија

                              Сите овие опсерватории се светски познати места, кои привлекуваат голем број на туристи, па со мал ангажман и нашиот локалитет Кокино, може да се најде на светската туристичка мапа.
                              The Macedonians originates it, the Bulgarians imitate it and the Greeks exploit it!

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