Slavic Migration Theory - 'The Evidence'

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  • Napoleon
    Junior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 98

    Slavic Migration Theory - 'The Evidence'

    Archeological Evidence...FAILED

    To date, not one single piece of archaeological evidence has ever been found to support the mythical 6th century migration theory. If the Slavs did in fact migrate to settle in over half of Europe during the 6th century, they magically did so without leaving any physical trace.

    First Hand Primary Source Evidence...FAILED

    Again, if the mythical 6th century migration did take place, it must have happened without either Rome or the eastern Roman empire (Byzantium) hearing about it as their scholars and historians have made no mention of what would have been a mass invasion and colonisation of their territories. Despite this, there are a few passages in several contemporary accounts which proponents of the migration theory offer as 'evidence', but these accounts are contradictory and vague...not what you would effect if they had been encountering a major invasion of their territories. At face value, these passages can simply be interpreted as accounts of social conflicts and upheavel between the literate, Romanised christian populations of the cities and towns, and the illiterate pagan populations of the countryside.

    Cultural Disruption Evidence...FAILED

    If a migration and settlement did in fact take place, then one would expect to find evidence of cultural disruption were cultural aspects of the indigenous population would disappear over a short period of time only to be replaced with new and different cultural aspects and practices of the 'incoming' Slavs. Despite this, there has been no evidence of either the indigenous culture disappearing or a new culture being introduced. In fact, there is nothing to suggest there has been anything other then unbroken cultural continuity in the Balkan region dating back to the neolithic.

    Logistical Evidence...FAILED

    To believe in the 6th century migration theory is also to believe that a small tribe of several thousand people living in the pripet marshes, suddenly had a huge population explosion over a short period to grow over several million. Not only this, they then left the pripet marshes to colonise over half the lands of Europe in less then 100 years. The indigenous populations of the lands that the Slavs 'colonised' also seemed to have magically disappeared without trace the same instant the Slavs were to appear on 'their' lands.

    Conclusion

    There is probably more evidence to prove the existence of Santa Claus then there is to prove the existence of a 6th century Slavic migration.
  • Sarafot
    Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 616

    #2
    I'm on your side bro!
    I will belive in it when some body convice me in that!
    Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
    - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

    Comment

    • I of Macedon
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 222

      #3
      Originally posted by Napoleon View Post
      Archeological Evidence...FAILED

      To date, not one single piece of archaeological evidence has ever been found to support the mythical 6th century migration theory. If the Slavs did in fact migrate to settle in over half of Europe during the 6th century, they magically did so without leaving any physical trace.

      First Hand Primary Source Evidence...FAILED

      Again, if the mythical 6th century migration did take place, it must have happened without either Rome or the eastern Roman empire (Byzantium) hearing about it as their scholars and historians have made no mention of what would have been a mass invasion and colonisation of their territories. Despite this, there are a few passages in several contemporary accounts which proponents of the migration theory offer as 'evidence', but these accounts are contradictory and vague...not what you would effect if they had been encountering a major invasion of their territories. At face value, these passages can simply be interpreted as accounts of social conflicts and upheavel between the literate, Romanised christian populations of the cities and towns, and the illiterate pagan populations of the countryside.

      Cultural Disruption Evidence...FAILED

      If a migration and settlement did in fact take place, then one would expect to find evidence of cultural disruption were cultural aspects of the indigenous population would disappear over a short period of time only to be replaced with new and different cultural aspects and practices of the 'incoming' Slavs. Despite this, there has been no evidence of either the indigenous culture disappearing or a new culture being introduced. In fact, there is nothing to suggest there has been anything other then unbroken cultural continuity in the Balkan region dating back to the neolithic.

      Logistical Evidence...FAILED

      To believe in the 6th century migration theory is also to believe that a small tribe of several thousand people living in the pripet marshes, suddenly had a huge population explosion over a short period to grow over several million. Not only this, they then left the pripet marshes to colonise over half the lands of Europe in less then 100 years. The indigenous populations of the lands that the Slavs 'colonised' also seemed to have magically disappeared without trace the same instant the Slavs were to appear on 'their' lands.

      Conclusion

      There is probably more evidence to prove the existence of Santa Claus then there is to prove the existence of a 6th century Slavic migration.
      Just to add to the above (though nothing that significant) it appears even mathematics was used to try and prove such migrations but failed, using nivariate and multivariate craniometric analyses of time-successive populations

      However, how accurate and reliable when testing on what I would say a small sample of skeletal population – I would say not that accurate, but then again I’m no mathematician. Nevertheless, whether right or wrong, accurate or not the hypothesis still failed in this (old) study. Thus;

      MATHEMATICS – FAILED

      Abstract of the study.

      A Test of a Migration Hypothesis: Slavic Movements into the Karst Region of Yugoslavia [and Comments and Reply], by Gloria Jean y'Edynak, Brad Bartel, Carl B. Compton, Robert W. Ehrich, David A. Fredrickson, Alexander Gallus, Leo S. Klejn, Matthias Laubscher, Tadeusz Malinowski, Raymond R. Newell, Ari N. Poulianos, Milan Stloukal, Susan C. Vehik and Robert A. Benfer © 1976 The University of Chicago Press.

      Abstract

      The paper presents the thesis that migration hypotheses must be tested on skeletal populations as well as on other information spheres: subsets of material culture, linguistics, historical records, and toponyms. It tests the null hypothesis that a population of Slavs replaced the indigenous population of Illyrians in the karst region of Yugoslavia after the middle of the 6th century A.D. The null hypothesis is rejected by univariate and multivariate craniometric analyses of time-successive populations in the karst zone: (1) Pre-Slavic, (2) Early Medieval, (3) Late Medieval, and (4) Recent. The conclusion is that there is little morphological difference between the Pre-Slavic and Slavic populations of the karst zone. The explanation for Slavicization in the karst zone must be sought in the cultural linguistic sphere and not in a phenomenon of population replacement.

      "….Frequently, population (biological) is assumed or inferred from the appearance of change in the cultural domain, cultural change need not however, imply population change." This is a similar notion based on archaeological evidence that Curta was highlighting, although I'm not sure to what extent.


      Further;

      A.M. Khazanov – Institute of Ethnography, Academy of Sciences of the USSR.


      …In prehistoric times, antiquity, and the Middle Ages, migrations were very rarely, if ever, accompanied by a complete replacement of population. With very few exceptions, those epochs were not acquainted with genocide, reservations, or mass deportations. Normally there was some kind of continuity between aborigines and newcomers. This is true in particular, of many people of the USSR – Azerbaijani, Khakass, Ossets….
      No need to sit in the shade, because we stand under our own sun

      Comment

      • osiris
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1969

        #4
        To believe in the 6th century migration theory is also to believe that a small tribe of several thousand people living in the pripet marshes, suddenly had a huge population explosion over a short period to grow over several million. Not only this, they then left the pripet marshes to colonise over half the lands of Europe in less then 100 years. The indigenous populations of the lands that the Slavs 'colonised' also seemed to have magically disappeared without trace the same instant the Slavs were to appear on 'their' lands.
        for me this was the most important factor in my own rejection of the slavic migration theory.

        Comment

        • TerraNova
          Banned
          • Nov 2008
          • 473

          #5
          Originally posted by osiris View Post
          for me this was the most important factor in my own rejection of the slavic migration theory.

          Before the Slavic migration (570 AD-7th century) there have been 3 centuries of other "Barbarian Invasions".
          From 250 AD on ,several waves of different people migrated West and South:
          Goths (Visigoths,Ostrogoths, Vandals),Avars,Huns,Eruli,Kutriguri,Alamans etc etc etc.

          The effects of invasions,destructions of cities and towns,killings and slavery were tremendous.
          Northern Balkans are described by Byzantine chronographers as a deserted land.

          Moreover during Justinian's time the Great Plague emerged (541-542AD)

          "By the time Justinian's plague had run its course in AD 590, it had killed as many as 100 million people -- half the population of Europe -- brought trade to a near halt, destroyed an empire and, perhaps, brought on the Dark Ages. Some historians think that the carnage may also have sounded the death knell for slavery as the high demand for labor freed serfs from their chains. Justinian's plague was a "major cataclysm," says historian Lester K. Little, director of the American Academy in Rome"

          Comment

          • Jankovska
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1774

            #6
            Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
            Before the Slavic migration (570 AD-7th century) there have been 3 centuries of other "Barbarian Invasions".
            From 250 AD on ,several waves of different people migrated West and South:
            Goths (Visigoths,Ostrogoths, Vandals),Avars,Huns,Eruli,Kutriguri,Alamans etc etc etc.

            The effects of invasions,destructions of cities and towns,killings and slavery were tremendous.
            Northern Balkans are described by Byzantine chronographers as a deserted land.

            Moreover during Justinian's time the Great Plague emerged (541-542AD)

            "By the time Justinian's plague had run its course in AD 590, it had killed as many as 100 million people -- half the population of Europe -- brought trade to a near halt, destroyed an empire and, perhaps, brought on the Dark Ages. Some historians think that the carnage may also have sounded the death knell for slavery as the high demand for labor freed serfs from their chains. Justinian's plague was a "major cataclysm," says historian Lester K. Little, director of the American Academy in Rome"

            http://www.ph.ucla.edu/EPI/bioter/an...sepidemic.html
            I thought you left? Jeez I have seen sad people but this is.. dear lord

            Comment

            • Thorvald
              Member
              • Jan 2009
              • 145

              #7
              On a Dutch forum, someone once suggested that the Slavs are a branch of the Germanic peoples, and that their language was an offspring of the Germanic languages, although personly I considered that theory as crap.


              Opinions?
              https://germanictribes.proboards.com/
              European preservation

              Comment

              • TerraNova
                Banned
                • Nov 2008
                • 473

                #8
                Ήρθα μόνο για να σου καταστρέψω τη μέρα αγαπούλα! .... :d:d:d

                Comment

                • makedonin
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 1668

                  #9
                  Originally posted by terranova View Post
                  Ήρθα μόνο για να σου καταστρέψω τη μέρα αγαπούλα! .... :d:d:d

                  Νόμιζα πως έχουν φύγει ? Δεν μπορούν να αντισταθούν το Μακεδονικό αλήθεια?
                  To enquire after the impression behind an idea is the way to remove disputes concerning nature and reality.

                  Comment

                  • TerraNova
                    Banned
                    • Nov 2008
                    • 473

                    #10
                    Originally posted by makedonin View Post
                    Νόμιζα πως έχουν φύγει ? Δεν μπορούν να αντισταθούν το Μακεδονικό αλήθεια?
                    ="Ι thought they have left. They can't resist the Macedonian (issue) ,really?"

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13669

                      #11
                      Terry, in future ensure that your Greek posts are accompanied by a full translation in English and/or Macedonian, and don't let me remind you of this again. This is a Macedonian forum, Greek is a foreign language, have some respect.
                      Originally posted by TerraNova View Post
                      ......................From 250 AD on ,several waves of different people migrated West and South:
                      Goths (Visigoths,Ostrogoths, Vandals),Avars,Huns,Eruli,Kutriguri,Alamans etc etc etc.

                      The effects of invasions,destructions of cities and towns,killings and slavery were tremendous...........................
                      These invasions also happened in what is today known as modern Greece.

                      Where are the Celtic, Germanic, Turkic and Iranian tribes that flooded all of the Balkans (Including what is today known as modern Greece) with invasions? Where are their languages, settlements, etc? Why have only the Slavic languages managed to survive in nearly all of the regions where the ancient Macedonians, Thracians and Illyrians lived?
                      "By the time Justinian's plague had run its course in AD 590, it had killed as many as 100 million people -- half the population of Europe -- brought trade to a near halt, destroyed an empire and, perhaps, brought on the Dark Ages. Some .....................
                      This disease also happened in what is today known as modern Greece.

                      What's your point? That the East Roman citizens were of mixed stock? Old news.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13669

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Thorvald View Post
                        On a Dutch forum, someone once suggested that the Slavs are a branch of the Germanic peoples, and that their language was an offspring of the Germanic languages, although personly I considered that theory as crap.


                        Opinions?
                        I think we can't rule out the possibility of some form of common ancestry in the very distant past. If we look at a linguistic map and one of placenames they seem to indicate that there is more Slavic influence in Germanic rather than the opposite. Austria's geographical position and its very own name testify to Germanic settlements in previously Slavic linguistic territory.

                        Have you read Jordanes' History of the Goths? What are you thoughts on this book, the historical chronology provided and names cited?
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Jankovska
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1774

                          #13
                          I find it so sad to a point that is funny. She does the whole good bye, cry for me people thing, put us all in happy mood, going out celebrating, getting smashed and I still haven;t even cured my hangover the slut is back. Why?
                          1) She has no life
                          2) She has to say things over and over and over to convince herslef they are true
                          3) I have done something really evil in previous life to have to beg to get rid off this hairy bitch once and forever

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13669

                            #14
                            Is Terry really Terroitsa?
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Jankovska
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 1774

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                              Is Terry really Terroitsa?


                              She deffo is annoying like hell- muva na gomno

                              Comment

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