Slavic Migration Theory - 'The Evidence'

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  • dave_petro
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2020
    • 14

    #46
    Stumbled across this beauty.

    Academic Study on the Slavic Migration Myth:

    'Nothing is impossible to him who will try"

    Comment

    • Liberator of Makedonija
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 1595

      #47
      Originally posted by dave_petro View Post
      Stumbled across this beauty.

      Academic Study on the Slavic Migration Myth:

      https://www.academia.edu/2572082/The...ard=view-paper
      Have that one downloaded and will read one day but Basil Chulev isn't exactly the most academic of authors.
      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

      Comment

      • Carlin
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2011
        • 3332

        #48
        New book:

        New Perspectives on the Early Slavs and the Rise of Slavic

        URL:


        "The volume is addressed to one of the most fascinating issues in contemporary historical linguistics and medieval studies, which is the extremely fast expansion of the Slavic language across great parts of Europe in the Early Middle Ages. Traditionalists explain the spread of proto-Slavic as a result of migrations in the 6th–7th century and associate that with a specific material culture and with early mentions of ethnic Slavs in written sources. Alternative hypotheses attribute the same evidence to linguistically and genetically quite varied communities and associate the later spread of proto-Slavic with its status as a ‘lingua franca’ or ‘koiné’.

        The papers in the present volume interpret new methodological and empirical findings from several fields of study, not only from the traditional triad of linguistics, archaeology, and historiography, but also from adjacent disciplines such as religious studies, cultural anthropology, archaeogenetics, and others. The unifying thread is that the question of the relations between Slavic language, ethnicity, and material culture has differing answers in different geographical and political contexts."

        Comment

        • Risto the Great
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 15658

          #49
          Just look at all the races speaking Slavic languages. Clearly they aren't all the same people. But what made it the lingua franca? It still dominates Europe more than people seem to care to admit.
          Risto the Great
          MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
          "Holding my breath for the revolution."

          Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

          Comment

          • tchaiku
            Member
            • Nov 2016
            • 786

            #50
            There are some rumours that Slavs that migrated to Greece were Serb-like genetically. The samples are there but we don't know if they are post or pre-Christianization of Slavs.

            If that turns out to be true there was likely a majority replacement since the Classical Age. Over 50% in many parts of mainland Greece.
            I just hope the facts are strong, I just want to know the truth nothing political here.

            The Moors and Carthaginians in Sicily were Northern African not like Levantines.
            Last edited by tchaiku; 03-01-2021, 04:59 PM.

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              #51
              Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
              There are some rumours that Slavs that migrated to Greece were Serb-like genetically. The samples are there but we don't know if they are post or pre-Christianization of Slavs.

              If that turns out to be true there was likely a majority replacement since the Classical Age. Over 50% in many parts of mainland Greece.
              I just hope the facts are strong, I just want to know the truth nothing political here.

              The Moors and Carthaginians in Sicily were Northern African not like Levantines.
              Would you be able to elaborate a bit on the notion of Serb-like Slavs migrating to mainland Greece?



              According to Radoslav Katicic, it can be shown on the basis of toponomastic material that the Slavs came in direct contact with the Thracians who still spoke their language (Plovdiv, from Thracian Pulpudeva) -- Ancient Languages of the Balkans, page 136, R. Katicic
              Last edited by Carlin; 03-01-2021, 05:12 PM.

              Comment

              • tchaiku
                Member
                • Nov 2016
                • 786

                #52
                Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                Would you be able to elaborate a bit on the notion of Serb-like Slavs migrating to mainland Greece?



                According to Radoslav Katicic, it can be shown on the basis of toponomastic material that the Slavs came in direct contact with the Thracians who still spoke their language (Plovdiv, from Thracian Pulpudeva) -- Ancient Languages of the Balkans, page 136, R. Katicic


                Serbs fall intermediate between Thracians and Northern Slavs but they lean Slavic by 5% to 10%.

                Also Bronze Age Hungarians were Albanian-like and Dacians were closer to Thracians genetically. So not necessarily Slavised Thracians.

                In Croatia and Slovenia a large population replacement happened. How long did it take Slavs from Ukraine to reach Greece? 100 years? Surely they were at least somewhat different.
                Last edited by tchaiku; 03-01-2021, 06:51 PM.

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                • Amphipolis
                  Banned
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 1328

                  #53
                  Originally posted by tchaiku View Post
                  Serbs fall intermediate between Thracians and Northern Slavs but they lean Slavic by 5% to 10%.
                  Not, according to this


                  East European (Slavic?) DNA per country


                  Balkan (Thracian-Illyrian?) DNA per country


                  DNA mix in Serbia and all European countries
                  Ethnicity list for Europe - Learn about the ethnic makeup of the UK, Germany, Norway and other countries in Europe. Explore ethnic groups such as Irish, Scandinavian or Italian, and discover your origins with MyHeritage DNA!

                  Comment

                  • tchaiku
                    Member
                    • Nov 2016
                    • 786

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                    Not, according to this


                    East European (Slavic?) DNA per country


                    Balkan (Thracian-Illyrian?) DNA per country


                    DNA mix in Serbia and all European countries
                    https://www.myheritage.com/ethniciti...t-country-list
                    They don't have ancient Thracian DNA samples.
                    The (1) Thracian sample we have is very close to ancient Ionians. It is like a Sardinian shifted Sicilian.




                    Northern Illyrians were like Northern Italians.

                    Comment

                    • Liberator of Makedonija
                      Senior Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 1595

                      #55
                      Debates over "Serb-like Slavs" just sounds superficial and therefore ultimately pointless
                      I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                      Comment

                      • Amphipolis
                        Banned
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 1328

                        #56
                        tchaiku,
                        what does the first map mean?
                        Also, did you just write we have one (1) Thracian sample?

                        Comment

                        • tchaiku
                          Member
                          • Nov 2016
                          • 786

                          #57
                          Originally posted by Amphipolis View Post
                          tchaiku,
                          what does the first map mean?
                          Also, did you just write we have one (1) Thracian sample?
                          The map shows the genetic affinity that modern population have with the Thracian in terms of percantages. All humans are related to each other, some more, some less. So the northern regions score lower.

                          As for the Serb-like samples, those can be dated post-Christianization (of Slavs) period so it's not known for sure if the pagan Slavs in the southern Balkan were like that. The study will come out this or next year.

                          C.Greek in the second map, is a mixed mainlander-islander, not an actual central Greek, that's why they plot with Abruzzes.
                          Last edited by tchaiku; 03-02-2021, 03:23 PM.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            #58
                            Serb-like Slavs ..... and Vlach-like Serbs:
                            We all know that the presence of neolatin people in what is now Serbia has suffered huge reductions since the Middle Ages. The descendants o...

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                            • tchaiku
                              Member
                              • Nov 2016
                              • 786

                              #59
                              Balkan-like Slavs in Early Medieval Central Europe:



                              They cover all the genetic diversity of modern Slavs from Balkan-like to Polish-like and even Lithuanian-like.

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                              • викторслава
                                Junior Member
                                • Apr 2021
                                • 7

                                #60
                                based OP

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