United Macedonia Diaspora

[George S.]

Question for vicsinad.You said you are macedonian & you never been to macedonia.Are both your parents macedonian?Where are you getting your information regards the albanians in macedonia.?

[Vangelovski]

Victor,

You still have not answered the question of why you believe that Albanians should have greater voting rights than the Macedonians and all other minorities. According to your logic, the Badinter Principle is needed to protect "minority rights". Well, what about the "rights" of other smaller minorities, who according to your logic, would need greater protection than the Albanians. What is so special about the Albanians in Macedonia that you believe their vote should be greater than the vote of both the Macedonians and other minorities put together?

Further, what "rights" do you think should be protected by the Badinter Principle?

I've already had to ask these questions over and over again and you seem to think that you can avoid them. This will be the last time I ask - if you think you can keep posting rubbish without actually addressing these questions, think again.

[George S.]

Inm yu opinion the albanianswere overprotected allready.Think about it the albanians are protected by being included in the macedonian constitution,also Under the un protection by
macedonia being a signatory to the protection of minorities.This was well before 2001.Also the council of europe also looks after minorities rights.What Macedonia didn't look after the rights of minorities so we have to bring in the FA & the badinter principle.Fact is they were allready well looked after further..The FA & the badinter principle was to fuck up macedonia.It doesn;t take care of whether a minority is being looked asfter or not.

[vicsinad]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

Victor,


I've already had to ask these questions over and over again and you seem to think that you can avoid them. This will be the last time I ask - if you think you can keep posting rubbish without actually addressing these questions, think again.

Tom,

I already had to repeat -- over and over again -- why I'm no longer responding to you on the issue. If you think you're going to get anywhere with your approach and attitude, think again.

But which rule you going to get me on? There seems to be none about "question avoidance" so

(6) Systematic anti-Macedonian propaganda and rhetoric are not permitted.

Seems the most plausible, because anything that you don't agree with related to Macedonian is anti-Macedonian.

or...

(8) Continual posting of messages in threads with the sole purpose of deviating from the initial topics with the use of unrelated and unnecessary information is not permitted.

Wait...now you can get yourself on this one. After all, you purposefully changed direction from your past conflicting statements about the UMD and how your inability to reconcile your actions as a MTO member toward UMD with MTO's principle of unity. Now it's nothing about UMD. You turned the flagship tune thread into something completely different. Time for a holiday!

Or this one...

(10) Despite the possibility of some conversations and debates becoming heated, extreme abuse and/or racism, vulgar language and/or terminology, threats, revelation of personal information about others, harassment, and other such behavior will not be permitted. If deemed necessary all relevant information including member details will be reported to the appropriate authorities for investigation which may result in legal action. Members are encouraged to immediately report any post and/or member to Administration if they feel that these rules have not been abided by.

You love calling me a racist! And, you use a lot of other demeaning language...luckily for you there's nothing in here about respect, or else you'd have been gone a long time ago.


(12) Compulsive and deliberate lies, irrespective of the topic, are not permitted.

Ahh, this one. I mean, I lied about...well, couldn't figure it out so Risto called it amnesia...but then when I called him out for not comprehending my posts, it was we'll just ignore it. So...let's forget about this one.

Can't wait to read your decision!

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Tom,

I already had to repeat -- over and over again -- why I'm no longer responding to you on the issue. If you think you're going to get anywhere with your approach and attitude, think again.

You haven't responded to these questions and you refuse to do so simply because you will show yourself for the hypocrite that you are. You are not interested in protecting minority "rights", you are interested in protecting Albanian "rights".

You will show clearly that you support the anti-Macedonian Badinter Principle, knowing full well that it is an anti-Macedonian mechanism designed solely to protect special privileges for the Albanian community only.

Finally, you are not interested in addressing these questions because it will become apparent that you do in fact support the special privileges in the FA (after claiming you do not).

Its become more than apparent that you support the FA in its entirety, as you are unable to tell us why only the Albanians should benefit from the Badinter Principle (as opposed to all minorities - which you claim was your philosophical underpinning for supporting the Badinter Principle) and what these evasive "rights" it is that you would like to see the Badinter Principle applied to (you supposedly do not support the special privileges provided under the FA but cannot name which "rights" you would support).

[vicsinad]

Originally Posted by Vangelovski

You haven't responded to these questions and you refuse to do so simply because you will show yourself for the hypocrite that you are. You are not interested in protecting minority "rights", you are interested in protecting Albanian "rights".

You will show clearly that you support the anti-Macedonian Badinter Principle, knowing full well that it is an anti-Macedonian mechanism designed solely to protect special privileges for the Albanian community only.

Finally, you are not interested in addressing these questions because it will become apparent that you do in fact support the special privileges in the FA (after claiming you do not).

Its become more than apparent that you support the FA in its entirety, as you are unable to tell us why only the Albanians should benefit from the Badinter Principle (as opposed to all minorities - which you claim was your philosophical underpinning for supporting the Badinter Principle) and what these evasive "rights" it is that you would like to see the Badinter Principle applied to (you supposedly do not support the special privileges provided under the FA but cannot name which "rights" you would support).

Excellent off-the-mark analysis and conclusion.

[Vangelovski]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Excellent off-the-mark analysis and conclusion.

You're failure to address those questions in combination with your rants can only lead to that conclusion. Worm as much as you can while you can Victor, you won't be doing it for long.

[Tomche Makedonche]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

There is no need to say that you would appreciate my honesty because I have been nothing but honest in all of my responses.

Personally, I don't believe in the nation-state. That applies not only to the countries of the Balkans, but all countries. Rather, I prefer strong local civic engagement and control...I prefer the emphasis be on, and control given to, communities. I believe that communities are best capable, and most willing, to protect the interests, needs and rights of their populations. At the same time, I understand the complex situation of Macedonia being surrounded by countries that are still dominated by elements of nationalism. Thus, there are obvious conflicts between what I want, what can be reasonably or realistically expected to happen, and what the democratic process would actually result in.

Interesting concept, taking into account the seemingly grandiose scope of this vision, since this is a forum regarding Macedonia, I hope you don’t mind if we restrict your vision specifically to the region of Europe for now. So under this vision, what would constitute a “community”?, what determines each “communities” boundaries? , do these “communities” have a right to defend these boundaries?, are these “communities” sovereign in nature?, does each “community” operate completely autonomous or within a federal construct?, what form of political system is to govern these “communities”?, again will governance come from some sort of central council?, if so who is to make up this council and how will it function?, will each community perhaps have a nominated representative in this council?, Who will determine the laws of these “communities”?, will it be a one law for all or does each “community” abide by their own individual laws?, I’m highly interested in the details of the plans you have thought of for administering this vision of a union between the possible, I don’t know say three hundred odd thousand “communities” of Europe, particularly since this vision of yours would likely include my “community”.

[George S.]

Vixsind you say you don't beleive in a nation state,you are being TWO faced here why don't you come out with it you don't beleive in a MACEDONIAN nation Statew but when the albanians completely take over you beleive in a Albanian nation state.That's why the albanians won't cooperate THEY WANT THEIR OWN NATION & STATE within macedonia.
I said before to you to answer tom's questions directly & stop beating around the bush.USE specifics rather than generalise.Also think what you have been aske before you write as you are giving people the shits by doing that.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by vicsinad

Excellent off-the-mark analysis and conclusion.

Hardly off-the-mark. It represents an accumulation of knowledge about you and also stems from your inability to adequately explain your stance on matter as critical as the Framework Agreement.

Set it right vicsinad. I dare you to do it without contradicting yourself.