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View Poll Results: Do you consider the UMD as your representative for the Macedonian Diaspora?
Yes 2 4.35%
No 44 95.65%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2010, 01:13 AM   #4971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Posted by Tom

A sample of "facts" provided by UMD

- Greece and the Republic of Macedonia have yet to reach a mutually acceptable solution on this issue, although U.N.-mediated negotiations continue.

- The Republic of Macedonia has always taken the position that it does not hold exclusive rights over the name Macedonia in geographic, cultural, historic, or commercial terms.

- The UN-brokered Interim Agreement forced upon the Republic of Macedonia in 1995 as an end to the Greek Embargo achieved several Greek aims including:

1. a tentative reference term for the Republic of Macedonia at the UN and within certain international bodies, and

2. new national symbols for the Republic of Macedonia unrelated to the historic Macedonian reality.

3. Amendments to the Republic of Macedonia’s Constitution reinforcing the “no-change” of borders provision contained therein without a corresponding amendment to the Constitution of Greece.

- However, throughout this humiliation, Macedonia has revealed itself as more than willing to compromise by proposing a resolution to the “name dispute.”

http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/241/51/
Are UMD working for the Greeks? Are they working for the interests of Western alies of the Greeks? A quick look at the above, and one has to wonder.

Macedonia was never Greek. I can't stress it enough. We can reject all territorical pretensions, sure there is nothing wrong with that and it is politically very productive and positive, but silencing our historical voice, silencing the past, and the ruthless suppression of our people over the last century - all we have achieved in doing that is the undermining of our natural rights, and our natural justice, and at the same time, given Greek lies that they are the 'real' Macedonians all the political legitimacy, and all the international publicity they could ever hope for.

We can say that the New Greeks invaded Macedonia in 1913 (BECAUSE THEY DID), and we can say that the seized Macedonian territory through an illegal use of force (BECAUSE THEY DID)...etc. Stating such facts should in no way be confused with territorical pretensions. We can make it clear again and again we have no territorical pretensions, but if we are going to begin the process of pushing our rights, and justice for what has happened, we need to start ACKNOWLEDGING THE FACTS OF THE RECENT PAST.

The path to political reconciliation is not putting our identity on the table as a bargaining chip, it begins with being honest, open and forthright about the invasion of Macedonian territory, its seizure, Greek policies and Bulgarian policies...etc. Again, this is not to be confused with territorial pretensions. Its about a civlised, open and honest acknowledgement of the past, and getting the New Greeks, degree by degree to agree with it. SILENCING THESE HISTORICAL FACTS, and at the same time, promoting the idea on an international scale that the Greeks were Macedonians too...we are denying ourselves justice, and we are denying ourselves of our historical rights. I say let the New Greeks bark all they like about antiquity...the current issue is about the last 100 years, and what happened. Right now we need some truth about the past to come to light, and we need the Macedonians to do it (again, stating historical facts has nothing to do with territorical pretensions - its about getting the Greeks and players in the international community to acknowledge the events of the recent past. Only then can political reconcilation start to happen, in a more healthy environment.

This business of using our identity as a bargaining chip to somehow 'fasttrack' a 'solution' or gain club membership to institutions that deny us our rights, is reckless and threatens our existence.

The dispute ONLY EXISTS because of three things; one, the seizure of Macedonian territory by the Hellenic Republic in 1913, through an illegal use of force; two, the ruthless suppression of the Macedonian people during that time, through a variety of policies; and three, the current policies of the Hellenic Republic which fails to acknowledge and justify its actions during those events, and its policy of nothing less that the extinction of the Macedonian people. Again, bringing such FACTS to light is not about territorical pretensions, its about acknowledging what happened in the past, and coming to some aggreement over the past - this is the only genuine and the only sensible path to some kind of reconciliation and long term peace.

Last edited by Pelister; 11-10-2010 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 01:20 AM   #4972
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That's it. UMD, you have maintained a position of following US Foreign Policy. Irrespective of the fact the US formally recognised Macedonia back in 2004, the position is now that Macedonia must enter NATO, by a mutually accepted name by Greece. You, UMD, have said you support this.

Clarify your position once and for all and stop bouncing around like a ball on a squash court.

Until now you have been unwilling to learn, you have not listened, you have not maintained a clear position on Macedonian matters, nor have you represented the interests of Macedonians in the Diaspora.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:08 AM   #4973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
Уставот на Република Македонија пишува дека името на Република Македонија е Република Македонија. Што ти бучи тебе?
Why has Meto deviated from this position by previously encouraging discussions on alternative names, which have included prefixes such as 'Democratic'.

In this case Meto (and UMD) have not only gone against the wishes of the diaspora but Macedonia's own constitution.

This is clearly another example of the disturbing ineptitude displayed by UMD and its leadership...
And begs the question...who does UMD represent?

Perhaps if the 'Screwdriver' is ever allowed to drag his apologetic arse back in here he might be able to debate the contradiction of what UMD has posted above and what Meto has previously suggested...

Last edited by Phoenix; 11-10-2010 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 07:41 AM   #4974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
A sample of "facts" provided by UMD
What exactly is UMD promoting?
Everything in that article was a statement of fact.

"The Republic of Macedonia has always taken the position that it does not hold exclusive rights over the name Macedonia in geographic, cultural, historic, or commercial terms."

This is actually a joint MHRMI-UMD talking point when attending the meeting with Ambassador Nimitz in 2005 and 2007, and nothing more than a statement of fact. Read press release by UMD and MHRMI: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/12/9/
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Last edited by UMDiaspora.org; 11-10-2010 at 07:45 AM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 09:34 AM   #4975
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And after that meeting MHRMI and UMD parted company, why? Do you know the connection between John Bitove Sr., George Koroloff and the MHRMI?

Q, Are you a Mason?

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Old 11-10-2010, 10:19 AM   #4976
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MK, wow. Masons don't divulge their identikit o m open forum
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:28 PM   #4977
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Quote:
Originally Posted by julie View Post
MK, wow. Masons don't divulge their identikit o m open forum
Julie, several people in the UMD are Mason's and if the president is he must follow rules that have nothing to do with the Macedonian diaspora and an agenda over and above everything else. If you get very close to some of these people you work for another goal.

Just saying .

You can tell someone you are a mason and nothing else - looking for a yes or no, some honesty for a change : )

Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 11-10-2010 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:33 PM   #4978
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nothing short of a sell out.I beg to disagreee do have rights & it's people like you who are too weak to represent them are ready to appropriate it to the greeks.As an example you know how we capitulated over the 16 star sun.You go and attempt to use it,you can't because the greeks have got it registered as their state symbol.Don't give me any shit as i know better the name issue will be the same fiasco which will be a complete sellout.You see unwittingly you will give greece a complete monopoly.You better be ready not to call yourself a macedonian when they register it as a state name if they haven't done so allready.The question is why do it why sell out no one is forcing macedonia to join nato & the eu.No one is forcing macedonia to partake of the name negotiations.The fact that you are partaking in the name negotiations sends the wrong signal.You guys need to change your attitude & hold what is sacred before we lose our identity.

Last edited by George S.; 11-10-2010 at 12:34 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 11-10-2010, 12:37 PM   #4979
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who are you saying that to - meto? if yes, i agree 100% and that will be their greatest downfall.

Last edited by Makedonska_Kafana; 11-10-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 11-10-2010, 02:56 PM   #4980
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that's right none other they have to get their act together & no name negotiations or anything to do with the name.
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