United Macedonia Diaspora

[makedonche]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

Not to expand this discussion to far off topic, but I'd say that Macedonians in various countries around world are members of UMD. Granted that not every member may like every decision, stipulation UMD has made, but their membership is reaching beyond the borders of "American Diaspora".

CT
This does not qualify UMD to claim they are either "the" voice/representation of "the" Diaspora or authorised by the Diaspora. This is where the misleading occurs and the misrepresentation comes from. Trying to attain credibility by nominating as a party to the survey without discussion or collaboration with the actual Diaspora.


I think they want to represent every possible Macedonian everywhere.
But why blame them for being on the survey? They are pro-active and I don't see any fault with that. In fact, there is actually an option to voice dissatisfaction: check the box "No extent".
CT
They may want to represent every possible Macedonian - but do the diaspora Macedonians want UMD reresenting them?
I like the fact they are pro-active, I don't like the methods used!
I blame them for being on the survey without dialogue from the diaspora. As for the checkbox, it wouldn't be needed if it was done with the diaspora's input.

This way, if those who filled it out check "No extent", then the survey (Australian Macedonians) will reflect no confidence in UMD.

CT
If that is the case it then becomes an embaressment and that information could be used by other parties to do more harm to the Macedonian Cause!



I'm asking because you said or implied that the survey is mis representing Australian Macedonians.

UMD is misrepresenting itself in puporting to act on behalf of the diaspora, the actual name "UMD" is a misrepresentation!





Keep bothering them.

CT
I am, all I got was another copy of the survey!





In your first post that I responded to, I didn't see any open questions, only a one-line statement of "mis-representation". So it would be impossible for me to claim that you are being unreasonable with your questions - Questions are always good, I encourage them.
CT
OK - am I being unreasonable with any of my remarks/questions?

The option of voicing concern before a survey is distributed can often be limited to outsiders, regardless of topic and who is doing it.

CT
Correct, but depending on the purpose and use of the survey, it would be more relevant if the appropriate parties were consulted, in order to have an input into it's substance and intent, otherwise it gives the appearance of a one sided survey designed by the party who has the most to gain from it.




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CT
I know you are keen to end this discussion, but would appreciate a reply.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

Obviously, its not only about UMD strengthening their influence and presence, the survey would have to be meaningful and serve its purpose.

Fair enough, we should just ignore the stupid question and hope it does not place a question mark over the entire survey. This is a reasonable conclusion and probably why I bothered to complete the survey.

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

This is where UMD is trying to show itself - and as I said, they are actually taking a risk and putting themselves on the line by not including other Macedonian-Australian names while letting people to choose whether or not they play a part in the roadmap relations.

You are making them sound like heroes. What precisely is your relationship with UMD? .... just so I can gauge your perspective and all.

Q: Would it be more or less of a risk if they showed the other (real) organisations?
I genuinely do not accept that an organisation with a membership of no more than an estimated 100 people in Australia is even worth mentioning in the question .... plain and simple. For you it is a monumental test of stoicism, for me it is rampant delusions of grandeur.

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

You did call the survey a "cheap stunt" by UMD, you are in-general also against UMD, and you seem to think of the survey as "bullshit" with stupid questions.

Yet you still decided to participate and complete the survey. You were not willing to exclude yourself and be a non-existant Australian Macedonian based on your opinion of the survey.

Anyhow, its time to move forward. I'll end my participation here on this subject.

Feel free to end your discussions. I will humour myself a little longer and repeat that I concluded that I would ignore the stupid question and hope it does not place a question mark over the entire survey.

Nothing life or death here, just typical UMD posturing that is all.

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

For sure "C" ;-)

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I was only joking of course. We certainly have more Macedonians reading the MTO than anything from the UMD so keep your eyes on the roadmap.

[Soldier of Macedon]

CT, a word of advice, careful. Not too long ago you were a vehement UMD 'defender', then you saw what they were all about. I fear you're returning back to your former views for the sake of some misguided 'objectivity'.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by makedonche

CT
I know you are keen to end this discussion, but would appreciate a reply.

This does not qualify UMD to claim they are either "the" voice/representation of "the" Diaspora or authorised by the Diaspora. This is where the misleading occurs and the misrepresentation comes from. Trying to attain credibility by nominating as a party to the survey without discussion or collaboration with the actual Diaspora.

This particular topic will just expand the subject further than I intend to participate on. It can be discussed endlessly. I'd focus on what UMD is actively doing and what their policy is, rather than get stuck with their name. For me, its not the name that matters the most, but what policy they are driving and what they are trying to achieve.

They may want to represent every possible Macedonian - but do the diaspora Macedonians want UMD reresenting them?
I like the fact they are pro-active, I don't like the methods used!
I blame them for being on the survey without dialogue from the diaspora

There are diaspora Macedonians who accept UMD to represent them.

Their members most notably - As for methods they use, like everything else in life. There will always be differences of opinion of what should have been done and what should not have been done. I may like how they are pro-active, but in certain cases I would question some statements or action. That's only normal. The point is, every organisation will have its own set of "fans" and its own set of "enemies". This seems to be the case with Macedonian organisations.

I cannot blame them for being on the survey. After all, they are looking after their own interest for the work they are putting in.

OK - am I being unreasonable with any of my remarks/questions?

No I don't think so - Would it be fair to assume that you did not fill out the survey due to UMD's methods and role?

it would be more relevant if the appropriate parties were consulted, in order to have an input into it's substance and intent, otherwise it gives the appearance of a one sided survey designed by the party who has the most to gain from it.

If UMD is not the preferred organisation in Australia, then what do they stand to gain in your opinion?

Have you asked UMD why they didn't consult with appropriate parties for this survey?



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[julie]

CT , UMD will not answer any questions which do not see them in a golden light.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

CT, a word of advice, careful. Not too long ago you were a vehement UMD 'defender, then you saw what they were all about. I fear you're returning back to your former views for the sake of some misguided 'objectivity'.

What exactly do you mean that I was a "vehement UMD defender", and then I saw what they were all about?

And what exactly do you consider to be a "misguided objectivity"?


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[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Fair enough, we should just ignore the stupid question and hope it does not place a question mark over the entire survey. This is a reasonable conclusion and probably why I bothered to complete the survey

That is a prudent decision.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

What precisely is your relationship with UMD? .... just so I can gauge your perspective and all.

I have no relationship.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

Q: Would it be more or less of a risk if they showed the other (real) organisations?
.

If the assumption is that UMD has less of a following in Australia, then there could be more risk if they listed other organisations.

Originally Posted by Risto the Great

I genuinely do not accept that an organisation with a membership of no more than an estimated 100 people in Australia is even worth mentioning in the question .... plain and simple. .

You're entitled to your subjective opinion. I have no intention to influence or change that.



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[Soldier of Macedon]

Originally Posted by Currency Trader

What exactly do you mean that I was a "vehement UMD defender", and then I saw what they were all about?

And what exactly do you consider to be a "misguided objectivity"?


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Ok, you're back to your normal self then. Do you suffer from short-term memory loss? If so, go back a month or so and take a look at your persistent apologetic defense of those UMD clowns, and then your so-called disappointment with their most recent behavior towards the AMHRC. Should you still be confused, then you should seek help from professionals.

By 'misguided objectivity' I mean your pathetic relapse as an UMD advocate. Like with everybody else, I tend to allow people to redeem themselves, even if it is a mistake. Seldom do I make the same mistake twice. Welcome back, some people never learn.

[Currency Trader]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Ok, you're back to your normal self then. Do you suffer from short-term memory loss? If so, go back a month or so and take a look at your persistent apologetic defense of those UMD clowns, and then your so-called disappointment with their most recent behavior towards the AMHRC. Should you still be confused, then you should seek help from professionals.

By 'misguided objectivity' I mean your pathetic relapse as an UMD advocate. Like with everybody else, I tend to allow people to redeem themselves, even if it is a mistake. Seldom do I make the same mistake twice. Welcome back, some people never learn.

The topic of this thread is about the University survey. I haven't spoken to you on this subject. All others I've spoken to have used a polite and respectful tone when discussing the topic. That has been very positive so far.

Then you come with a post which intends to focus on a personal level and not so much about the survey per se - So, here is my answer to you: I'd encourge you to open a separate thread if you want to discuss personal positions and the difference between an "advocate" and someone who uses "objectivity". Bring it on if you wish to take it further.

As for your hightlight of my "disappointment" of UMD decision to not officially support AMHRC campaign, that has all been cleared for me. My questions have been answered and I now understand the underlying issues behind the non-official support. If you ever wondered why Macedonian history has been marked by divisions, this is an example.
There is always 3 sides to the story.

Noentheless, my objectivity and rationale decided to support AMHRC campaign. Do you have a problem with that?


Let me ask you this:

Do you think that an organisation/government/dog club/investment group (regardless of mission) will always do/say the right thing and fulfill every member or non-member wishes?

Do think its possible for individuals to objectively judge each separate action that an organisation does?






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[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't need you to remind me what the topic of this thread is. Bring it on? Get real, lol, show some consistency, you're a roller-coaster and a closet apologist that underwent a short process of clarity and logic before returning to your familiar self. And you're now convinced that it has all 'been cleared', to who, you? Of course it has, you must have had some sleepless nights when that US lackey Koloski was unable to produce a reasonable answer to your (then) reasonable questions.

Perhaps this is your cue to return to the maknews forum and indulge in the usual UMD ass-kissing that is habitually displayed over there. As you can see, nobody here is espousing the same views as yourself. Wonder why? Perhaps we're all wrong and you're right. Let me know if you need help identifying the sarcasm mr 'positive'.