United Macedonia Diaspora

[Silver]

Originally Posted by vodenka

The sole responsible to deal with the name issue is the legally elected government of Macedonia. Macedonian governments in the past signed agreements in UN and EU or whereever and not macedonian NGOs. How can an organization like UMD be accounted as "responsible' for any possible name change of the state of Macedonia, even if it has (I do not know if it is so) expressed a pro-compromise idea on the name issue. The entire opposition in the Macedonian Parliament is pro-compromise and nobody here is worried about it!

Says who? Have you been reading the forums or know what you're talking about? Seems only UMD is not worried about it.

[vodenka]

Originally Posted by Silver

Says who? Have you been reading the forums or know what you're talking about? Seems only UMD is not worried about it.

The politicians in Macedonia are those who have the possibility to change the name of the Republic, not UMD, whatever its opinion may be about it. So, all the discussion in the forum is just for criticism about UMD and its work and not for the name issue and the political responsabilities. If some of you do not agree with what UMD is doing, do not follow or support it. You cannot burden the organization for responsabilities which are not its own.

[Bratot]

Vodenka,

I would add here the complete Parlament and not only the opposition. Actually the opposition untill 2007 was even more radical in their statements about the name issue than it is a case today with Gruevski.

If you are curious I can show you something from the archive. Anyway.. my point was.. they are all lost cases and I know we can't rely on any political party nor politician.
They are all puppets of one master.

[vodenka]

Bratot, I do not know about politicians in Macedonia and what they are saying to the people as I do not understand the language very well, but as I cannot impose my will to them (I cannot vote as I am not a citizen there), they cannot decide for me how I will self define or change my ethnic name. And of course, no matter what the official name of the state will be at the end of this story, our brothers and sisters in Macedonia who will self define as Macedonias anyway, will be Macedonians (plain) like me and nobody can deprive them of using this term. And the struggle will continue for official recognition from the world community of our nation with our historic name. I really hope that the Macedonian government will not change the name of the country as by it will be easier to be automatically recognized as nation (with a state) no matter where we live.

[Risto the Great]

Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon

Don't know why that happened, I have made it a sticky again.

My apologies. I did it, I thought it was all over and I hate having too many stickies at the top of the forum.

[Bratot]

That's why we are both here... to discuss and to inform eachother, this is very unique posibility to connect with the Macedonians from all sides and to combine our knowledge and give bigger input for our cause.

I agree with your post and I wanted to point out the changeable position of our politicians.

Since 3-4 years ago the position of the nowadays opposition was identical as nowadays government you know what to expect.

[Silver]

Originally Posted by vodenka

The politicians in Macedonia are those who have the possibility to change the name of the Republic, not UMD, whatever its opinion may be about it. So, all the discussion in the forum is just for criticism about UMD and its work and not for the name issue and the political responsabilities. If some of you do not agree with what UMD is doing, do not follow or support it. You cannot burden the organization for responsabilities which are not its own.

Thanks for the lecture. But for whatever reason you're mixing it up to deflect the fact that we are not laying the resposnibility for the name issue on UMD. You're being dishonest for saying that.

We are questioning the stance and policy of an organization who claims to represent the entire Macedonian Diaspora. I for one did not give them that privilegde nor did anyone else I know. If I don't support them should I leave them to continually support anti-macedonian organizations and negotiations on my behalf without saying anything?

That's what the discussions are for. If you're happier at the other forum and the use of the delete button than I suggest you stay there. Don't insult everyone's intellegence like other UMD cheerleaders try to do.

[Pavel]

Originally Posted by UMDiaspora.org

Again, misinterpretations. UMD's President in Adelaide did not say it is because UMD that the U.S. recognizes Macedonia. What he said was that as a result of Macedonians in America throughout the last century who have been fighting for support and recognition, and organizations like UMD. UMD does not claim exclusivity, and this success was a combination of efforts of all Macedonian-Americans.

Originally Posted by Pavel

ha ha ha i got home just in time to catch you twisting things again. i saw it and heard it. he said its thanks to organisations like umd that U.S. recognises macedonia. you are making yourself look silly. umd was hardly formed when bush recognised macedonia and it had nothing to do with umd.

is this how you tell the truth? by claiming things that had nothing to do with you? so you can impress naive people into donating money to you? everyone knows that it was a shift in US policy in eastern Europe that drove this and not umd.

[vodenka]

Originally Posted by Silver

Thanks for the lecture. But for whatever reason you're mixing it up to deflect the fact that we are not laying the resposnibility for the name issue on UMD. You're being dishonest for saying that.

We are questioning the stance and policy of an organization who claims to represent the entire Macedonian Diaspora. I for one did not give them that privilegde nor did anyone else I know. If I don't support them should I leave them to continually support anti-macedonian organizations and negotiations on my behalf without saying anything?

That's what the discussions are for. If you're happier at the other forum and the use of the delete button than I suggest you stay there. Don't insult everyone's intellegence like other UMD cheerleaders try to do.

If you do not like UMD you can say your opinion about them, criticize them for their work, declare that they do not represent you but only their members and followers, etc. but you cannot pretend to make them stop existing.
It is only your opinion or also of some few others that UMD is an anti-macedonian organization, not everybody's. No organization is in the position to represent all the Diaspora or all the Macedonians, this is clear.

[indigen]

Originally Posted by Rogi

The word revolution springs to mind.

If they change the name, not only are they not fit to Govern Macedonia and the Macedonian people, but they are the enemies of the Macedonian people and the Macedonian identity.

Rogi, if you read between the lines of what the "Macedonian" government representatives (in particular Gruevski, Miloshoski and Ivanov) are, and have been, saying and couple that with similar messages coming from all pro government media in Mk, it is more than clear that a name change has been agreed upon and they are now only resisting (negotiating) terminology that Greeks want to apply on Macedonian language and people. Thus a state name change is a done deal and only thing holding back its implementation is Greek insistence, at this stage, on scale of application.

Since Government of RM is RAMKOVIST, are you saying they are FIT to govern and shoud have the support of Macedonian diaspora or Macedonians in general? Also, should Ramkovisti not be the enemies of Macedonian people and Macedonian identity?

IME, prevention is better than trying to find a cure after the DEADLY DISEASE has INFECTED the Macedonian body and time for action is long OVERDUE and WAITING for the imminent official proclamation is CRIMINAL PATRIOTIC NEGLIGENCE. The "Framework Agreement" is a TERMINAL CANCER infecting the Macedonian body (state sovereignty and national identity) and as a result its immune system is much weakened and thus prone to further serious infections - name and identity change.