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Old 02-17-2012, 05:23 PM   #21
Soldier of Macedon
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Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
When Rumfeld was leaving Macedonia right after Camp Bondsteel was approved, your constitutional name was recognized immediatly afterwards.
Scratch the surface of that story a little more. Prior to the referendum against the territorial redivision of Macedonia, there were threats made by both the government of the time and extremist elements among the ethnic Albanian community concerning employment, regional security, etc. The usual dumb Balkan stuff. The referendum initially had the support of several Macedonian and non-Macedonian political parties and peoples until the US got involved and recognised Macedonia shortly prior to the referendum taking place. This wasn't done because the US is our 'close friend', it was done to finish what they started during the conflict in 2001. If and/or when it suits them, they will change their position, they have been urging Macedonia to do so, before and after 2004. I would trade US recognition for the retainment of a Macedonian Macedonia (with full minority rights accorded to other peoples) in an instant. The referendum failed for a number of reasons, and the US was one of them. What happened afterward was basically the realisation of some key aims of the extremists. Close friends........
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I just dont understand that you will do almost anything in an attempt to get a few artificial perks from other global or regional players instead of just trying to work out the difference with Greece and moving forward.
Macedonian governments have made some stupid decision, both in relations with their neighbours and the wider international community. You're being naive when you assume that we would do anything for a few artificial perks. Our government perhaps would. But when it comes to Greece, the only 'difference' is the one which Greece creates. We don't have to agree with each other either personally or officially on certain historical matters. But politically and in reality today you are Greece and Greeks, we are Macedonia and Macedonians. You have grandfathers that called themselves Greek and spoke Greek, we have the same who called themselves Macedonian and spoke Macedonian.
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I have a hard time understanding that approach. Just trying to open up your eyes to reality. Nothing to do with you personally.
Greece needs to change its position and recognise Macedonia and the Macedonian people/language. You probably believe that will never happen. Why is it so hard for you to understand then that Macedonia will not seek friendship with a country which doesn't even have the dignity to respect her identity? For years now, Greece has gone around the world poisoning the views of statesmen with their malicious anti-Macedonian propaganda and doing their best to prevent Macedonia from moving forward in certain areas of the international arena. Because of Greece and the cowardice of our own government, we are continually subjected to humiliation by being referred to by the 'provisional name' or its acronym which some of your people are so fond of using to mock my people. What don't you get?
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:25 PM   #22
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Voltron you keep on avoiding the question should Greece recognise the Macedonian Nation and end what it started then send a nudge to Sofia to do the same
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Old 02-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
US got involved and recognised Macedonia shortly prior to the referendum taking place.
Exactly SOM, just to had more weight to the argument, it was done the day before the referendum was meant to take place and massive parties were organised and held by the government for the citizens to minimize the referendum turnout the next day. Further, recognising Macedonia under its constitutional name was George W Bush's first act after winning the election the previous day!
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Old 02-17-2012, 08:38 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Voltron View Post
It concerns me because I dont want an Ottoman Villayet close to our borders. I just dont understand that you will do almost anything in an attempt to get a few artificial perks from other global or regional players instead of just trying to work out the difference with Greece and moving forward. I have a hard time understanding that approach. Just trying to open up your eyes to reality. Nothing to do with you personally.
Resolving our 'differences' with Greece would involve trading in our identity. We would cease to exist as Macedonians. As a Greek, you may not necessarily agree with who we identify ourselves as, but surely you can appreciate that we cannot simply sacrifice our name and identity for so called, 'improved relations.' As SoM said, you are Greeks and have Greece as your motherland, why is it such a problem that Macedonians be able to have a homeland called Macedonia?

We had our differences with Turkey for centuries, yet today we find ourselves as allies. Whether that's due to genuine friendship or a common 'enemy,' i.e Greece, I don't know. But if it weren't for Greece's stubbornness and prejudice against the Macedonian people over the last few centuries, then I think our people could have had a great political relationship. Unfortunately things didn't turn out that way, and we can thank the successive hostile Greek governments for this outcome.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:51 AM   #25
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Based on the above, it can be argued all of Macedonia's neighbours are existential threats to Macedonia.
Not all of them. To be an existential threat they need both the will and ability to wipe Macedonia off the map.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:52 AM   #26
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Wow, another ray of stupidity has struck you down!
Volk, as usual, WTF are you on about fool?
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:53 AM   #27
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Tom, I don't agree with this statement at all. Kosovo pose a very potent threat so long as they continue to harbour and protect terrorists. It's also made the theory of 'Greater Albania' somewhat achievable, and they aren't going to stop at Kosovo.
EM, I agree that Kosovo poses a very real threat to Macedonia, and some of its other neighbours, but I do not agree that it is an existential threat.
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Old 02-19-2012, 02:54 AM   #28
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Vangelovski is probably a big supporter of the greek macedonian negotiations. Vangelovski would also support if the Macedonian government agreed for the country to become 2 states, 1 for the albanians and 1 for the rest.
DCH, I have a feeling you will end up crying like the rest of the sooks on this forum.
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:32 AM   #29
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You should start quoting and answering people in 1 post.

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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
DCH, I have a feeling you will end up crying like the rest of the sooks on this forum.
I doubt that.

Let's say that we are in 1912 and greeks start occupying Macedonia and replacing the Macedonian population with greeks. Would you accept any agreements that will split the country into 2 states? would you just let them kill Macedonians and treat them like animals? and would you support all of this just because greek history books say that Macedonia was once greek and now they have the right to occupy and resettle it?

Please answer the questions in 1 post
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Old 02-19-2012, 03:44 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by DirtyCodingHabitz View Post
You should start quoting and answering people in 1 post.



I doubt that.

Let's say that we are in 1912 and greeks start occupying Macedonia and replacing the Macedonian population with greeks. Would you accept any agreements that will split the country into 2 states? would you just let them kill Macedonians and treat them like animals? and would you support all of this just because greek history books say that Macedonia was once greek and now they have the right to occupy and resettle it?

Please answer the questions in 1 post
DCH, your amateurish and shallow attempt to compare the Macedonian-Greek situation with the Israeli-Palestinian situation would be gut-wrenchingly laughable if it were not so pathetic. What is even more pathetic is your complete lack of understanding with regards to the Israei-Palestinian conflict and yet you are presumptuous enough not only to comment, but compare it to a completely irrelevant issue.

What on earth does your rambling have to the with the Israeli-Palestinian issue and my comments in particular?
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The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams
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