Macedonian-Turkish relations

[Onur]

WOW!!!!!!
Quite the backflip from the debate we were having just afew weeks ago

What???

Did i say "Greece doesn't scare of Turkish army b4??? Quote me then... Only thing i said was; Turkey never ever occupies any Balkan country. If we go somewhere else, it will be only for rescue operations of innocent people from fascists like Greek army. We got military forces at Sarajevo and Kosovo now but not to occupy, we stay there for people`s security. And you know what, one of my friend was at Turkish Kosovo forces 2 years ago for his military service. He told me that Kosovo people were extremely friendly to Turkish army and he even said some restaurants wouldn't even accept money from him several times.



Bosnian genocide at 1990s was the very first time for Turkish army stepped in Balkans for 100 years, since the Empire days. We only gone there to stop Milosevic forces and to save our fellow Bosnians.

You can be sure that it wont be last if fascists like Serbs or Greeks tries to do same thing on innocent people again.

So, Greek army can continue to chant racist stuff about Hagia Sophia for 600 years more, trust me we don't care at all but i hope they stay at Athens since they cant get away by swimming at Balkans either, like they did at Imia island.

[Spartan]

What???
And you know what, one of my friend was at Turkish Kosovo forces 2 years ago for his military service. He told me that Kosovo people were extremely friendly to Turkish army and he even said some restaurants wouldn't even accept money from him several times.

Should I be shocked or something?

[Onur]

Should I be shocked or something?

Do not comment if you don't have something to say, ok?


I wrote that to be a proof of Turkish army is not there for occupation and local people knows that too. Its not like the USA army in Iraq.

[Spartan]

Did I say it was?

[Prolet]

Spartan, No you didnt

Onur, Im not sure how familiar you are with the Turkish-Albanian relations outside of Turkey but Turks dont like the Albanians very much in areas like Kosovo and Macedonia i cant speak about Greece because im not too familiar however in Macedonia the Albanians have stated in many cases they believe that Turks are Albanians and i know the Turks very well in Skopje and there are alot of problems especially with the religious objects like Mosques and the Islamic Community where the Albanians are trying to use it to their advantage.

I can tell you that there is not one Torbesh Mosque in Skopje (Macedonian Muslim) believe me the Turks tolerate Albanians but at the same time deep down they dont think much of them. Now those Albanians who have been living in Macedonia for over 400 years are not like that because they integrate into the community especially the Shkreti where you wouldnt even know about them but these extremists and Wahhabists have done nothing for anybody.

[Onur]

In Turkey, we never had any problem with the 100.000s of Albanian immigrants after the republic but i have no idea how is the relationship between Albanians and Turkish groups outside Turkey.

If Albanians trying to force Turks to adopt Albanian identity, i am sure they don't like that but why they do that anyway??? They wanna increase Albanian population in Macedonia to get some power?

[osiris]

[QUOTE] Albanians trying to force Turks to adopt Albanian identity, i am sure they don't like that but why they do that anyway??? They wanna increase Albanian population in Macedonia to get some power?/QUOTE]

that right its about power and the eventual destruction of macedonia. modern albanian nationalism is stuck in the 19th century its intolerant and abusive of non albanians and its led by many questionable characcters whose aim is personal wealth and power

[Prolet]

Onur, Its exactly the case a modern Macedonian from the Diaspora could not tell the difference if they hear an Ottoman Turk speak Macedonian they speak the language fluently with no grammar mistakes but you have Albanians like Ali Ahmeti who speaks terrible Macedonian and he doesnt even originate from Macedonia he is from Kosovo this is why people dont like him.

You would expect for somebody who's lived in Macedonia for generations to be able to speak the language properly and not speak like somebody whos never lived in Macedonia. Just like Macedonians in Turkey speak perfect Turkish, the local Turks would not think highly of somebody whos lived in Turkey for 50 years and not being able to speak the language properly.

[Big Bad Sven]

It’s the fanatical arab’s that support macedonia’s muslim population eg Turks, roma, torbeshi etc to become albanicized.

They actively support this buy helping to finance the development of Mosques through out Macedonia, thanks to Saudi money. The arabs turn a blind eye when they see or hear about Albanians using islam to albanisize other muslim people. The arabs don’t care what happens to the turks or torbeshi, as long as they get to increase and strengthen the muslim presence in the Balkans. However the real winner here is the Albanians, as they don’t really care about islam, but only Albanian nationalism. But the arabs and muslim maniacs are to stupid to work this out. It will be like the Kosovo war, “muslim brothers” from the middle east came to help the shiptars in Kosovo, but after the war they where disappointed to find out that Albanians loved Skanderbeg more then allah, and also alcohol, pork and drugs too.

Sadly we have many idiots in the Balkans that blame the turks of the increase of fanatical muslims in the Balkans. They need to get past their own stupid prejudices and see that it’s the Saudi’s that are brining wahabis into the Balkans and the ones who are trying to create a muslim state there. I have always respected the Turks, and the (normal citezens) Iranians working of islam.

But going back to the Albanians, they are doing what the “greeks”, serbs and Bulgarian slavs did in the ottoman times – using a religion as a political tool to brainwash or forcefully change a ethnic groups structure. Again, more proof on how evil our neighbours are.

[kykypajko]

I can't remember the exact period or incident. But i think it was around the time of the Ethnic albanian conflict. Where the west brokered some sort of peace treaty and international troops were to step in and keep the peace. The Macedonians created road blocks because they were not happy with foriegn troops untill the country was told it would be Turkish troops entering. The road block was opened and there were people on the streets chearing them as they were driving by. I am sure i seen something like this on television and i did not dream it. Mabe someone can confirm or add to this.

Why i bring this up, is to show that there is respect for the Turks and our relation is at all time high.

it sounds like you're describing the evacuation of UCK out of aracinovo who were completely surrounded by ARM

[Onur]

Racism and discrimination is the worst disease of the humanity.

Ofc everyone in Macedonia should speak Macedonian perfectly no matter what their ethnicity. We got a proverb in Turkish like "You are belong to the place where you earn your daily bread/meal, so its your duty to protect it to be able to bequeath it to your children".

I mean they are the part of Macedonia first, then they are Turks, Albanians etc. in a second degree but Macedonia should always come as first in priority because its where they earn their lives.


This is the motto of the people in Turkey;
Everyone knows their identity but the "Turkey" always comes first in priority because its the concept of Turkey which makes it possible to live here in peace. Its inherited to us and its our duty to protect it to be able to leave it to our children like our ancestors did to us.

Because of this motto, we live in peace here in Izmir, a city with small representation of Balkans with Albanians, Bosnians, Turks, Macedonians etc. Some of us has Bosnian father, Albanian mother, Macedonian father etc. and this was never a problem for us.

Tbh, everyone should try to feel like this in Macedonia too, regardless of their ethnicity.



But i can guess the problems like you described above because they try to create similar problems at southeastern Turkey with Kurdish people. Thats why i said racism and discrimination is the worst disease of humanity.

[Pelister]

Do you know how much EU and Greece scares of Turkish military presence at Balkans??? If Macedonia asks something like that to Turkey, i am sure EU threatens you to end membership negotiations because EU and Greece even tried to stop Turkey rescuing Bosnians from the genocide at 1993. You know Greece even supported Milosevic`s actions at that time.

When Milosevic and Serbians started to massacre Bosnians at 1992-1993, incoming news were the Dutch UN soldiers was doing nothing to prevent Serbians killing Bosnians and then Turkish military gone there immediately even with opposition of EU and Greece to that. We didn't listen to them because whole EU was doing nothing and watching them die. Our soldiers deported around ~250.000 of Bosnians to Turkey at that time and some of them was even our guests in our homes for some time because most of these people was the relatives of our former Bosnian immigrant citizens.

I remember their misery at that time because most of them came to Izmir. There was no place to settle 250.000 people who came here all of a sudden. All hotels was full with them, like 100 of them were staying at my high school`s gymnasium and students were collecting money between each other to buy them food. One family was staying at my friend`s house because his parents was Bosnia born immigrants. They were keep crying and hugging us. Half of them became Turkish citizen laters and stayed here.

To be honest, Onur, what is so great about being a member of the E.U? I would rather see Turkey create its own "block".

Why should we give up any of our soveriegnty, or any of our jurisdiction to a foriegn body? The E.U interferes in our affairs, it dictates policy, IT REFUSES TO RECOGNISE US. Turkey on the other hand is different.

As for 'the West' - well they are all in it togethere.

[Onur]

To be honest, Onur, what is so great about being a member of the E.U? I would rather see Turkey create its own "block".

To me, nothing...

EU is just an unification attempt of the fossils in my opinion. Its destined to be fail...


A lot of people asking the same here to create a block with Turkish speaking countries in Caucasus with the support of Russia(if necessary) but you know what, I am %100 sure that this can be a reason for war with great powers. They do whatever it takes to prevent it if we even try to realize that.

[johnMKD]

So, Greek army can continue to chant racist stuff about Hagia Sophia for 600 years more, trust me we don't care at all but i hope they stay at Athens since they cant get away by swimming at Balkans either, like they did at Imia island.

I don't think this is appropriate here, Onur.
However, it is only the stupid hatred between our countries that stays on and on. Armies are armies and they chant stupid things as well: there is no logic in that. I'm sure this technique is applied also elsewhere in the world. This doesn't mean that all Greeks share the same reasoning.

[Onur]

I don't think this is appropriate here, Onur.
However, it is only the stupid hatred between our countries that stays on and on. This doesn't mean that all Greeks share the same reasoning.

I know this doesn't mean that all Greeks share the same reasoning(but unfortunately, most :S, i guess...). I meant the racist army officers of Greece and yes, I hope they never go out of Greece`s borders for their own good.

They fled by jumping in the water at Imia, its the truth and the very same naval squad chanted about killing us(Turks, Macedonians, Albanians) brutally 1 month ago. Regular people who applauded and the priest who encourage them for the Aegean as seen in youtube video was even more disturbing than the soldiers tough.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?p=46120#post46120

Armies are armies and they chant stupid things as well: there is no logic in that. I'm sure this technique is applied also elsewhere in the world.

No, this is not true. You cannot consider racism as a norm for training soldiers. Turkish army never does this. Also our army has more than enough glory to chant about, hatred towards some other people would be against our culture and very irrelevant here.

I don't believe that racism is a usual tactic to train soldiers in majority of the world. It shouldn't be that way. Maybe except Greece, USA, England and few others.