Financial Crisis in Greece

[Phoenix]

I dont know about the Kalishnikov but let me ask you this way. If I have been feeding you for the last 20 years of your life great food, great hours, great vacation time, great security and one day I tell you its all over. Does that mean you will die ? Or would it seem like it just because the change is so drastic and abrupt ? This is more psycological than anything else. Greeks are pretty good and expressing themselves so adamntly that a foregner would think he is about to drop dead of a coronary.

Case point. During the fires in Greece people were screaming and cursing how the helicopters were too slow in dousing the fires. How the fire trucks were slow in reacting, etc etc.

Then in California that same year where thousands of acres and rich homes were burnt to a crisp. You would see a different type of people with a sense of understanding that there was nothing that anything could of been done to stop that tragic event. They didnt curse the airplanes or helicopters or fire trucks. They just handled it differently.

So a foreigner would see both identical events and circumstances and see in the press one case "Greece slow action burns homes " and on the other hand they will see " unprevantable fires burn homes in malibu " or smthg.

Why ? because its the effect its people give to the media. Greeks here arent going to die or have nothng to eat. They are just so pissed off that what is happening now is like the worst nightmare coming true. Fact of the matter is the hardest part for us is to adjust to the simple reality that we havnt been doing a God damn thing over so many years to actually bring a sustainalbe income to its citizens. For this I fault the politicians not the people.

Yep, that's right Vol, it's only a matter of perception...things are nowhere near as bad as what the economists and international politicians are projecting and that shit hitting the fan is really manna from heaven...

[Voltron]

Yep, that's right Vol, it's only a matter of perception...things are nowhere near as bad as what the economists and international politicians are projecting and that shit hitting the fan is really manna from heaven...

Depends what you consider bad. Would 30 Trillion dollars in the hole seem like an issue ? Yet I dont see agencies downgrading the US. wait one did and there was an outcry over it.

Anyway, yes its bad but its not the first time Greece went bust.

[George S.]

///"""I think we could have achieved a similar effect with Aegean Macedonians and the Republic of Macedonia if only the Macedonian government invested more funds in Bitola and Gevgelija, instead of spending only on Skopje and Tetovo which has attracted many Albanians to those cities."""
Voltron where the govt to find i trillion dollars.Do you know how much the macedonia budget isIt's so low you would not beleive it .I don't think they got money to waste like greece.If they enter eu they can borrow.But besides we don't want bitola to be totally islamised.

[Voltron]

Winter 1893: Greece is bankrupt. Summer 1896: It hosts the first modern Olympics

The same spirit that allowed a troubled nation to stage the first international sports festival can rescue it again.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/winter-1893-greece-is-bankrupt-summer-1896-it-hosts-the-first-modern-olympics-6257912.html

December 1893 was the previous nadir of Greek finance. On the 10th of that month, Prime Minister Trikoupis rose in parliament and uttered the words: "Regretfully, we are bankrupt." In a dash for modernisation and growth, Greece had woefully over-borrowed. Repayments might have proved troublesome even if the economy had been buoyant, but state revenues stuttered, and overseas earnings sagged alarmingly. Currants made up nearly three-quarters of the country's exports, and the collapse in demand for them, and so prices, was devastating. By mid-1893, more than half of the Greek budget was being used to service existing loans. It couldn't last, and it didn't. The country had to cede control over its finances to a commission of officials from Britain, France, Germany and elsewhere.

Trikoupis resigned, and the Crown Prince was put in charge of the Athens Organising Committee. It met for the first time on 13 January 1895 to devise a detailed schedule of events, cultural as well as athletic, to ensure all who were expected could be accommodated, get existing venues up to scratch, build new ones, and, most pressing of all, to turn the derelict Panathenaikon Stadium into a fitting arena for the world's first international sports festival. To do all this they had precisely 14 months, and no funds. In a bravura act of faith for a bankrupt nation, they decided that not a penny, cent, or franc would be accepted from foreign sources. Every drachma would have to come from Greek sources.

What now followed was one of the most remarkable examples of peacetime mobilisation in modern history. Round went the begging bowl. Municipal authorities organised collections within the country, embassies and consulates dealt with expatriates, and, in places, the effort took on the fervour of a crusade. Donations came in from all over Greece, and from Greek communities in the Balkans, London, Copenhagen, Ireland, Boston, Cairo, Vienna, Odessa and Marseilles. Individual merchants gave as much as 10,000 drachmas, and even the monks of Mount Athos sent cash. Within a month, more than 130,000 drachmas had been given. But all this paled into insignificance compared with the generosity of a shy, but rich, Greek merchant living in Alexandria, Egypt. Georgios Averoff agreed to underwrite the entire cost of restoring the Panathenaikon Stadium. It would cost him more than one million drachmas.

^ Few paragraphs from the link posted. Just goes to show you that its not the first time we went bust. Hell, we even hosted the Olympics right afterwards lol.

[Risto the Great]

You're right Voltron, Greece should have the Olympics every alternate event. Thank God the French told the Greeks they had something to do with the Olympics otherwise they would still be doing Arabic bead twirling competitions.

My advice to Greeks is work harder, pay some taxes and join the 20th century for 50 years .... then join the 21st century.

[Brian]

@Voltron
I know in many posts you've tried to play down the severity of events in Greece but pictures (even just these on the MTO) say a thousand words, could you swallow your pride for a moment and comment on something I heard unofficially - that in the back streets of Athens it is possible to buy a Kalashnikov for EUR100-00 and that some people are buying them. Tell us if you know this to be true or even if you have heard street rumours of it?

I wasn't asking you if Greeks are good or bad in character. It was a straightforward question - do you know if some Greeks have resorted to buying kalasnakovs on the black-market?

I wasn't suggesting they want to start an armed revolution but for self defence as economic factors make people more desperate. I first heard it from private sources and since then was shown a clip of Nigel Farage saying he had heard from a 'good source' that people were doing that. Rather than giving me a speech about the 'good' Greek character, a simple yes or no that you know it or have heard rumours of this was what I was looking for.

LOL.Because you took some time to reply I thought you rushed out to find someone and buy one.LOL.

[Brian]

I dont know about the Kalishnikov but let me ask you this way. If I have been feeding you for the last 20 years of your life great food, great hours, great vacation time, great security and one day I tell you its all over. Does that mean you will die ? Or would it seem like it just because the change is so drastic and abrupt ? This is more psycological than anything else. Greeks are pretty good and expressing themselves so adamntly that a foregner would think he is about to drop dead of a coronary.

Case point. During the fires in Greece people were screaming and cursing how the helicopters were too slow in dousing the fires. How the fire trucks were slow in reacting, etc etc.

Then in California that same year where thousands of acres and rich homes were burnt to a crisp. You would see a different type of people with a sense of understanding that there was nothing that anything could of been done to stop that tragic event. They didnt curse the airplanes or helicopters or fire trucks. They just handled it differently.

So a foreigner would see both identical events and circumstances and see in the press one case "Greece slow action burns homes " and on the other hand they will see " unprevantable fires burn homes in malibu " or smthg.

Why ? because its the effect its people give to the media. Greeks here arent going to die or have nothng to eat. They are just so pissed off that what is happening now is like the worst nightmare coming true. Fact of the matter is the hardest part for us is to adjust to the simple reality that we havnt been doing a God damn thing over so many years to actually bring a sustainalbe income to its citizens. For this I fault the politicians not the people.

Judging by the following article I would have to agree that Greeks are behaving like spoilt brats having a tantrum for having their extremely lavish 'pocket-money' slashed towards (note NOT at) mere human levels.

Greeks stage big rally on eve of eurozone meeting

http://www.idividi.com.mk/english/world/749779/index.html

...

The latest measures include a 22-percent cut in the minimum wage, while pensions of more than 1,300 euros ($1,700) a month will be slashed by 12 percent, further adding to the economic hardship of ordinary Greeks.

"Everyone should take to the streets," one protester, taxicab owner Gregoris Militis, 52, told AFP.

"The measures are the worst thing that could have happened. It is outrageous," said pensioner Christos Artemis.

"All the people are suffering. Shortly we will be asking ourselves where the bread is?"

...

I don't know what 'couple-rate' for the Aged Pension in Australia is but I think it's about $12-1300-00 and not the $1700-00 the Greeks are getting at age 50 so I can understand why a 22% reduction would make a spoilt kid bitch and have a tantrum and as you say "Greeks here aren't going to die or have nothing to eat."

[Stojacanec]

Voltron, you couldn't afford the last Olympic games. Thank god for Europe stepping in and helping out again.

21st century rules state to run an event like the Olympic games means you need to outlay millions of dollars from govt coffers.

Its not a chance to run around naked with oil on.

[Risto the Great]

Its not a chance to run around naked with oil on.

Any excuse will do for me.

[Onur]

do you know if some Greeks have resorted to buying kalasnakovs on the black-market?

Brian, i know it`s difficult but try to think like a Greek. You use the term "buying" above but would you pay money for that if you`d be a Greek?;

Athens, the long night of February 12: “burning and looting tonight”
Tens of banks and other buildings are burning across Athens after today’s demonstrations. There are huge riots in Thessaloniki and Patra as well. The situation seems to be spiralling out of control. We will try to summarise key developments through the night, below:

All times are GMT+2

00.22 A few hours ago, enraged demonstrators in the city of Corfu stormed the offices of the local ‘socialist’ MPs Gerekou and Dendias (an ex-minister of Justice), destroying them completely.

00.20 The town hall of the city of Volos is burning. Earlier, people had stormed the local tax office, destroying plenty of documents inside.

00.14 A demonstration has only just started in the city of Athens, with people roaming through the city’s streets and the police tucked away in the sidestreets.

00:07 Demonstrators attacked the Exarcheia Police station a few minutes ago.

23:45 Smoke from tear gas and burning buildings has covered central Athens. Clashes are still going on and the streets are full of people. Earlier, a lot of demonstrators tried to attack the house of the former Prime Minister Costas Simitis in the upper class district of Kolonaki (Anagnostopoulou st.)they clashed with the police units guarding the house.

Earlier a group of demonstrators tried to invade Acropolis police station. The police officers managed to protect the police station but several of them were injured while police vehicles in front of the station were burnt.

Early in the afternoon a DELTA motorcycle police unit, was trapped by demonstrators: people held a rope across the street throwing down the speeding motorcycles.

23.10 GMT+2 It is entirely impossible to estimate the number of people who have taken to the streets in Athens tonight. They are definitely in the hundreds of thousands – there are simply people everywhere.

23.07 GMT+2 The building of Marfin bank (the same building where three bank workers died on May 5, 2010) has been burnt to the ground.

23.05 GMT+2 A gun shop in Omonoia, Athens, has been looted.

23.02 GMT+2 Information about the alleged occupation of the town hall is confirmed: a group of people entered the building, only to be evicted and arrested by riot police a few minutes later.

22.42 GMT+2 The town hall of Athens has allegedly been occupied.

22.40 GMT+2 Police attack and cut off people in the Law school. At least 200 people are trapped inside.

22.30 GMT+2 At least 20 demonstrators and another 30 police have been injured during the day’s clashes.

http://www.occupiedlondon.org/blog/2...oting-tonight/

[Brian]

Voltron, you couldn't afford the last Olympic games. Thank god for Europe stepping in and helping out again.

21st century rules state to run an event like the Olympic games means you need to outlay millions of dollars from govt coffers.

Its not a chance to run around naked with oil on.

LOL.Why not Stojance? If it was good enough for 2 1/2 thousand years ago, why not now? Besides, seeing some of those athletes wearing only olive oil might lift the TV ratings if not a few other things also.

[Brian]

Brian, i know it`s difficult but try to think like a Greek. You use the term "buying" above but would you pay money for that if you`d be a Greek?

23.05 GMT+2 A gun shop in Omonoia, Athens, has been looted.

Welcome back Onur! Good to see you again friend.

LOL."to think like a Greek". I know what you mean.

Brian Post1013 @Voltron
LOL.Because you took some time to reply I thought you rushed out to find someone and buy one.LOL.

Maybe he took time to reply because he was to busy 'just getting' one.LOL.

[makedonche]

Brian, i know it`s difficult but try to think like a Greek. You use the term "buying" above but would you pay money for that if you`d be a Greek?;




http://www.flickr.com/photos/evie_robbins/4017508776/

Onur
There's no need to speculate about Kalishnikov's when there is plenty of evidence about actual events!

[George S.]

i reckon there is more to come in respect of greece as they say you ain't seen nothing yet.
I'm waiting for a domino effect.

[Phoenix]

Looks like the 'greeks' have dodged another bullet for now.

Most of the 'experts' still don't expect the 'greeks' to survive an inevitable default...one commentator today claimed that the 'greek' economy is unable to grow or expand in a sufficient manner to service the repayments into the future.

The overriding fear remains a wider contagion, if that can be contained I reckon the 'greeks' will eventually be cut adrift...