Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

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  • Carlin
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2011
    • 3332

    Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
    Trifunoski's research is invaluable. I wonder, was there any real Albanan presence in Macedonia prior to Ali Pasha of Janina's conquests?
    There was, but it might be hard to determine exact numbers. Definitely less than prior to the times of Ali Pasha.

    On a related note, I read a while back that Ziadin Sela's ancestors hail from Northern Albania (he is from Struga).

    Have also read about Albanization of certain Muslim families in Struga, as well as "merging" of Macedonian Muslims with Albanians with Macedonian being abandoned by the Muslims and mixed families. Will try to find more info on this, but I also recall reading specifics about it in the past.

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      The quote below comes from Vasil Kanchov. Translated using Google Translate:

      "Arnaut devastations continued until 1832, when Rashid Pasha destroyed the Arnaut force near Shkodra. The Ohrid chronicler records two great devastations in these places. In 1805, Arnaut hordes captured the whole area of ​​Ohrid, and in 1821 this chronicler wrote: Until now, Arnaut newcomers from the Shkumba Valley have been sweeping away the Bulgarian population from the western parts of the Ohrid region. Dr. (Joseph) Mueller, who traveled to these places in 1837-38, testified that the village of Ferdovo (Fargovo) had a mixed population of Arnauts and Slavs, and the village of Kalishte was purely Slavic. Now Fargovo is a purely Arnaut village, and in Kalishte there is only 1 remaining Bulgarian house. The emigration of the Bulgarians continues to this day from the other two Bulgarian villages, Radozhda and Lin, and the time is not far off when the entire western shore of the lake will be Arnaut."

      There are many Arnaut families in the towns of Struga and Ohrid, but all of them learn Turkish quickly."

      Comment

      • Liberator of Makedonija
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 1595

        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
        The emigration of the Bulgarians continues to this day from the other two Bulgarian villages, Radozhda and Lin, and the time is not far off when the entire western shore of the lake will be Arnaut."
        http://macedonia.kroraina.com/vk/vk_1_b7.htm
        Well............
        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
          Well............
          From the same link/article from Vasil Kanchov.

          Google Translate (mostly):

          "The Arnaut element began to spread to Macedonia with greater force in the second half of the 18th century. At that time, independent Arnaut leaders rose up in Albania and invaded Macedonia. In the areas of Macedonia: in Skopje, Tetovo, Gostivar, Kichevo, Ohrid and other places, semi-dependent Pashas of Arnaut origin appeared. They encouraged Arnaut migrations to these places in order to have the support of loyal soldiers. Ali Pasha of Ioannina reached the greatest power of these Arnaut chiefs, who became stronger at the end of the 18th century in Ioannina. As an independent prince he conquered, apart from a large part of the Albanian lands, the western Macedonian lowlands and the lands of Arnaut domination reached Mount Pelister. From 1788 to 1820, his rule helped the Arnaut population to fortify itself in the Korcha region and capture the southern shore of Lake Ohrid, from where the rest of the "Bulgarian" population either fled or was killed off during the fighting."

          Comment

          • Carlin
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2011
            • 3332

            Sat 26 May 1906

            Outrage in Macedonia

            Eleven families murdered

            A lawless band of two hundred persons murdered eleven Kutso and Wallachian families, numbering sixty of all ages, in the village of Gobena. Gobena is situated in Macedonia.


            EUROPEAN CABLES BY SUBMARINE CABLE COPYRIGHT TASMANIAN PRESS ASSOCIATION. A ROYAL BANQUET.; EUROPEAN CABLES RUSSIAN LAWS.; AN HONOURABLE RECORD.; EUROPEAN CABLES INCOME TAX CASE.; SAN FRANCISCO SYMPATHY.; GENERAL CABLES.; NATAL NATIVE TROUBLE.; IMPORTATION OF STUD STOCK.; AN EMISSARY ARRESTED.; STARVING REBELS CAPTURED.; DESECRATING THE SABBATH.; THE GAME PROTECTION ACT.; SITUATION SERIOUS.; AUSTRALIAN IMMIGRATION.; CROSSED THE STRAITS 2,000 TIMES.; Advertising; A NEGRO LYNCHED.; A MISSING PARENT.; PRINCESS ENA.; GREAT BRITAIN AND RUSSIA.; THEFT OF SECURITIES.; TRANSVAAL ADMINISTRATION.; GENERAL STOESSEL.; OUTRAGE IN MACEDONIA.; EMPIRE DAY.; LORD MILNER'S SERVICES.; SCHOOL CELEBRATIONS.; THE PERSIAN GULF.; THE CANADIAN DINNER.; LORD MAYOR'S RECEPTION.;

            LATEST CABLES.; KILLED BY A TRAIN.; TELEGRAMS.; KALANGADOO RACES.; Advertising; MURDERS IN MACEDONIA.; WHAT THE BOERS REALLY WANT.; PETROLEUM ON YORKES' PENINSULA.; PRINCESS ENA LEAVES FOR SPAIN.; MISSING SHIP.; IRISH DELEGATES' RECEPTION.; THE NATAL REBELLION.; ADELAIDEAN'S LOCAL PROOF; NEGRO LYNCHED FOR A DOLLAR.; AN ABSCONDING THIEF ARRESTED; SPORTING.; A R C. BIRTHDAY MEETING; Cross Examination.; HUNTING.; Advertising;

            Comment

            • Carlin
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2011
              • 3332

              The Bulgarian pogrom wiped out Vlach (Arman) villages and towns

              Pande Kolemishevski

              - This spring marks 105 years since the beginning of the little-known pogrom of the Vlachs from Macedonia carried out by the Bulgarian authorities during the First World War in 1916, when they ruled the territory of present-day Macedonia, and then part of Serbia according to The Bucharest Agreement. In the Macedonian historiography the mass internment of the Vlach families in Bulgaria has not been studied and processed at all, it was not a subject of special interest of the Macedonian historians. Data is not stored in the Bulgarian archives either. There are no surviving written records, except for a few memories of direct sufferers or the memories of their descendants. In some private archives are kept the lists of forcibly displaced families and individuals, as a distant memory of the crimes, as a sad memory, as evidence of missing relatives, neighbors, friends.

              - The most characteristic and most mass deportation was carried out in the sub-Pelister villages on the Bitola side: Magarevo, Trnovo, Molovishte, Gopesh and Nizopole. According to Professor Areti Sidovska, who researched the events, one morning in 1916 the Bulgarian commander gathered the inhabitants of Magarevo and Trnovo and told them that they would be deported the next day. He told them that each of them, women, men, old, young, has the right to carry only one bundle, and only in one hand.

              Full article in Macedonian:
              Непозната историја: 105 години од интернацијата на Власите од Македонија Оваа пролет се навршуваат 105 години од почетокот на малку познатиот погром на Власите (Арм’ните) од Македонија што го извршија бугарските власти за време на Првата светска војна во 1916 година, кога ја владееја територијата на денешна Македонија, а тогаш дел од Србија според Букурешкиот […]

              Comment

              • Risto the Great
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 15658

                Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                one morning in 1916 the Bulgarian commander gathered the inhabitants of Magarevo and Trnovo and told them that they would be deported the next day.
                If we accept the theories that Vlachs were of a shepherd culture, where were they being deported to?
                Risto the Great
                MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                Comment

                • Carlin
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2011
                  • 3332

                  Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                  If we accept the theories that Vlachs were of a shepherd culture, where were they being deported to?
                  According to what's written in the article they were deported / relocated to several places throughout Bulgaria:

                  1) "Од убавите села останале само урнатини, семејствата им биле растурени низ цела Бугарија, најмногу во Русе и Пловдив и во околни села."

                  2) "Депортираните биле разместувани на повеќе места низ Бугарија, еден дел во Шумен."

                  3) "Во Струга и во Струшко интернацијата била спроведена по директива на врховистичкото крило на ВМРО, чие влијание во градот било големо. Мноштво стари луѓе, изнемоштени жени, мајки со малолетни деца, свештени лица, патувале пеш од Струга до Кичево каде што биле качени на воз, а оттаму транспортирани во најмизерни услови (како Евреите подоцна) до населби дури во Тракија, каде што им се губи трагата."
                  Last edited by Carlin; 04-14-2021, 02:00 PM.

                  Comment

                  • VMRO
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1462

                    Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
                    According to what's written in the article they were deported / relocated to several places throughout Bulgaria:

                    1) "Од убавите села останале само урнатини, семејствата им биле растурени низ цела Бугарија, најмногу во Русе и Пловдив и во околни села."

                    2) "Депортираните биле разместувани на повеќе места низ Бугарија, еден дел во Шумен."

                    3) "Во Струга и во Струшко интернацијата била спроведена по директива на врховистичкото крило на ВМРО, чие влијание во градот било големо. Мноштво стари луѓе, изнемоштени жени, мајки со малолетни деца, свештени лица, патувале пеш од Струга до Кичево каде што биле качени на воз, а оттаму транспортирани во најмизерни услови (како Евреите подоцна) до населби дури во Тракија, каде што им се губи трагата."

                    Could Karakachanov be a descendant of one of these Vlach families?

                    He is from Ruse and family name has Vlach origins.
                    Verata vo Mislite, VMRO vo dushata, Makedonia vo Srceto.

                    Vnatreshna Makedonska Revolucionerna Organizacija.

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13670

                      Originally posted by VMRO View Post
                      Could Karakachanov be a descendant of one of these Vlach families? He is from Ruse and family name has Vlach origins.
                      I doubt that parasite has any ancestral connection to Macedonia, even if he is a Vlach. His father is supposedly from Gabrovo:

                      Регистър на сътрудниците на Държавна сигурност и разузнавателните служби на БНА
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • Carlin
                        Senior Member
                        • Dec 2011
                        • 3332

                        Zagračani: Amidst the Albanian population of Zagračani were Macedonian Muslim families originating from the villages of Oktisi and Podgorci who now speak Albanian.



                        "За родот Прент се зборува дека се доселени од областа Черменик (село Прент) во јужна Албанија и дека таму биле православни Македонци. Од Прент се иселиле како три куќи тројца браќа. Едниот се иселил во Заграчани, вториот во Мислешево (таму се христијани Македонци), а третиот отишол во Гостиварско. Родовите во Мислешево и Заграчани порано се пазеле како роднини."

                        Last edited by Carlin; 10-09-2021, 09:08 PM.

                        Comment

                        • Carlin
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2011
                          • 3332

                          An invasion took place in AD 251, led by Cniva, a Gothic chieftain.

                          Both Lower Moesia and Thrace were devastated and Philippopolis was seized and burnt down. Reports are provided by both Dexippus and Jordanes’ Getica, 101-103.

                          Comment

                          • Carlin
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 3332

                            History of the Goths, By Herwig Wolfram - Page 142:

                            "In 397 Arcadius and Alaric entered into a foedus, which allowed the Goths to settle in Emathia tellus, the central Macedonian heartland between the Haliacmon and Axius rivers, in other words, exactly where in 474 the Ostrogoths of Thiudimir and Theodoric were to be settled."

                            Comment

                            • Carlin
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2011
                              • 3332

                              Iamphorina or Iamphorynna was the capital of the Maedi, a Thracian tribe in ancient Macedonia. It was taken by Philip V of Macedon in 211 BCE. Writing in the 19th century, William Martin Leake placed it at Ivorina (Vrania), in the upper valley of the Morava River.

                              (A number of Maedi emigrated to asia minor and were called MaedoBythini.)

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                АМЕРИКАНСКИ СВЕДОШТВА ОД 1912: Во Солун, Пела или Воден до денешно време се зборува дека Македонија никогаш не била дел од Грција

                                АМЕРИКАНСКИ СВЕДОШТВА ОД 1912: Во Солун, Пела или Воден до денешно време се зборува дека Македонија никогаш не била дел од Грција

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