Ventilator

[Volk]

Volk, are you dancing like a moneky again? Go back to post 1. This has nothing to do with how many rays the sonce may or may not have had. The comment I made on the rock is a side issue about one of the BS tactics the ventilatoristi are using to promote the ventilator.

Your ignorance of Macedonian symbols is obvious when your not even aware how many rays are depicted by the symbol throughout our history.

Care for a banana now?

Your attempts to simply brush of the authenticity of such a find give credence to 'ventrilatoristi" (LOL) because your argument is, its not real, it has no significance therefor its not relevant to the government flag.

The symbol most likely is real and is the oldest depiction of our sun found in our state, however this should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

[vojnik]

Your ignorance of Macedonian symbols is obvious when your not even aware how many rays are depicted by the symbol throughout our history.

Care for a banana now?

Your attempts to simply brush of the authenticity of such a find give credence to 'ventrilatoristi" (LOL) because your argument is, its not real, it has no significance therefor its not relevant to the government flag.

The symbol most likely is real and is the oldest depiction of our sun found in our state, however this should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Even if that rock is authentic etc. What does it have to do with our current flag? Our current flag wasn't based on this rock and surely wasn't based on a royal symbol of the Macedonian's etc. like the Sonce was. The current flag was made up Miroslav Grcev who was a graphics designer. Thus the resemblance of the current flag to the sun on the rock is irrelevant as it is not a symbol that has represented Macedonian's for thousands of years. It is an artificial symbol created to please Greece.

[Volk]

Even if that rock is authentic etc. What does it have to do with our current flag? Our current flag wasn't based on this rock and surely wasn't based on a royal symbol of the Macedonian's etc. like the Sonce was. The current flag was made up Miroslav Grcev who was a graphics designer. Thus the resemblance of the current flag to the sun on the rock is irrelevant as it is not a symbol that has represented Macedonian's for thousands of years. It is an artificial symbol created to please Greece.

Where did I say it had anything to do with it?

[Vangelovski]

The symbol most likely is real and is the oldest depiction of our sun found in our state, however this should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Most likely hey? How about offering some EVIDENCE?

[Volk]

Most likely hey? How about offering some EVIDENCE?

If your going to claim its not real, you need to provide the evidence
your narcissist opinion aside you purposely miss the main point:

The symbol should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Do you disagree with this?

[Vangelovski]

If your going to claim its not real, you need to provide the evidence
your narcissist opinion aside you purposely miss the main point:

The symbol should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Do you disagree with this?

Volk, stop turning logic and reason on its head. Is there a rock or isn't there? If there is a rock, show us the evidence that it exists and that it is what you claim it to be. Do you have any? Or do you believe in a non-existent rock?

[Volk]

Volk, stop turning logic and reason on its head. Is there a rock or isn't there? If there is a rock, show us the evidence that it exists and that it is what you claim it to be. Do you have any? Or do you believe in a non-existent rock?

read my above post again, and again until you decide to answer it

[Vangelovski]

read my above post again, and again until you decide to answer it

You're an idiot. You claim there may be a rock and then you want others to prove there isn't one. You either believe there is a rock and you can show us evidence that it does exist, or you don't know if there is a rock and your just talking crap as usual.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I don't think Volk even knows what he is trying to argue.

[Vangelovski]

I don't think Volk even knows what he is trying to argue.

Someone has to take on Prolet's role of village idiot.

[Volk]

Nice to see your knight in shining armour ride in to save you as always...

Let me reiterate my point which Vangelovski sidesteps:

The symbol (in question) should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Tom refuses to answer for obvious reasons, how about you SOM, do you disagree with this??

[Vangelovski]

Nice to see your knight in shining armour ride in to save you as always...

Let me reiterate my point which Vangelovski sidesteps:

The symbol (in question) should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

Tom refuses to answer for obvious reasons, how about you SOM, do you disagree with this??

Volk, in relation to you highlighted bit, refer to the VERY FIRST POST IN THIS THREAD.

In relation to the rock, which I already stated is a side issue, have you decided on whether you think it exists or not?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Nice to see your knight in shining armour ride in to save you as always...

Childish, stupid, pathetic and irrelevant.

Tom refuses to answer for obvious reasons, how about you SOM, do you disagree with this??

Well, let's look at what you wrote:

The symbol (in question) should have no baring on the fact that the Sonce of Kutlesh is the first flag adopted by a free modern Macedonian state and its removal as such is a clear capitulation of our identity.

It does have a bearing on the fact because it is the symbol which replaced it. You're attempting to justify the existence of the treacherous ventilator - just because there was an apparent rock found which looks similar but has NEVER had a recorded use in Macedonian history.

The symbol most likely is real and is the oldest depiction of our sun found in our state.....

How is it "our" sun? Aside from the 90's and 1 so-called rock, can you show me any time in our history prior where this sun of "ours" has been used in the shape of the ventilator? Or is any sun "our" sun, so long as it is found in Macedonia?

[Risto the Great]

SoM, I don't think Volk is trying to justify the Ventilator via the rock. I believe he believes that if Vangelovski questions the existence of the rock, then Vangelovski would embrace the Ventilator if the rock is found to be authentic.

It all comes down to the ability to comprehend ... and Vangelovski rightly pointed Volk to the first post on this thread ... which states his opinion on the matter.

I was going to comment earlier but became fascinated with my navel instead.

[George S.]

the ventilator represents compromise & capitulation.I don't care how great the ventilator is & how many fucking rays it has is immaterial, the macedonian sun it should not have been compromised .We had a flag & it was stolen from us.The smart thing is to go back & reclaim it.Also people should stop being apologetic about the ventilator & not accept it.No you don't have to accept it you can do it go back to the macedonian sonce.The real sonce grej.
A lot of people are trying to justify the ventilator with apolgetic things like hey it's the 8 ray sun of alexander or that it appears on some rock who cares it doesn't matter the real test is we have capitulated on what is rightfully ours.We can go back & say we will not agree to sign our rights away & we chose our flag its the macedonian sun.People saying hey it's ok to use the ventilator are just apolegetics why not say the same for the name nehgotiations???We should get back on track with the right flag & the right name.
RTG i'm not sure but perhaps there should be a press release that the macedonian govt should go back & reclaim the flag from the greek thieves even after they have registered as a hellenic symbol.I wonder how hard it's going to be.
Or just simply fly the flag internally & eventually after macedonia is accepted as macedonia make it known that we want the oringinal sonce.