When Will We Stop Shooting Ourselves In The Foot?

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  • El Bre
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 713

    When Will We Stop Shooting Ourselves In The Foot?

    Below are quotes from an ongoing exchange over at another forum.

    I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you could even speak proper Macedonian. But, in the absence of this, you're just another Macedonian shit stirrer without any direction in life.
    I do speak proper Macedonian, I just don't speak the new version of Macedonian used in the Republic of Macedonia. Perhaps you guys should learn how to speak proper Macedonia and jettison the Yugoisms and English terms in your new version of Macedonian.
    Oh, and I guess you're also writing proper Macedonian with words like "oushche"? I don't buy it. You don't read or write Macedonian and you speak a dialect of Macedonian that's probably only understood by other Canadian-Macedonians. You Canadians really have to get off your high horse. Let's not forget, you lot were the first to abandon your homeland and change your names and identities.
    My question is; In retrospect...did the choice of dialects used to standardize the Macedonian language actually do more to alienate people than it did to consolidate them?
    Last edited by El Bre; 01-01-2010, 09:20 PM.
  • Phoenix
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 4671

    #2
    Originally posted by El Bre View Post
    Below are quotes from an ongoing exchange over at another forum.







    My question is; In retrospect...did the choice of dialects used to standardize the Macedonian language actually do more to alienate people than it did to consolodate them?
    Just to clarify that little exchange from another forum far, far away...
    The thread started off as a discussion about the current and ongoing greek financial dilema and how the European Central Bank will react...things were going along in a civilized manner until the Grand Poobah at the other forum decided to have his now customary hissy fit at the Australians, thats when things turned to shit...

    Now back to the dialects...

    Unless you've gone to Macedonian school for many years you will never have the same language skills as the person who has gone to school, that should be more than obvious...as for our dialects in the diaspora they're the result of many of us using a language that we picked up in the family home, often a 'dialect' that has been trapped in a 1950's or 1960's time warp, when our families first left the old country.

    Its a shame that we should argue about these sorts of things...on that basis do we reject the message from 'Spiro' because his Macedonian is not as good as somebody schooled in the language and do we deduct extra ethicity points from him because the poor man is burdened with delivering his broken message in that disgusting grik accent...

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #3
      let it be said .... 'ousche' makes perfect sense to me. anything else over there makes less sense to me.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15658

        #4
        the choice of dialects was nothing in comparison with the actions of greece over the last 50 years.
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Big Bad Sven
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 1528

          #5
          When i went to macedonia last year a lot of people referred to the people from Strumica as "Bulgarians" and their dialect as "bulgarian". My family from the strumica region referred to the dialect that i can speak and understand as "serbian"

          Sadly i don't think its a diaspora issue only...

          Comment

          • Rogi
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 2343

            #6
            I cannot stand hearing any claim that any one dialect is more so correct than any other dialect of the Macedonian language.

            Similarly, I can't stand hearing that the standardised literary Macedonian language is 'more Macedonian' than any individual Macedonian dialect.

            Comment

            • Prolet
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 5241

              #7
              Rogi, If we take the Strumica region for example, people struggle to understand them especially when they talk fast. Phoenix made a good point about Spiro's dialect, to me thats not a dialect its a strong Macedonian in a Greek Accent its clear that Macedonian wasnt his first language because he cant say Ch,Sh,Zh and these letters are very important in our Alphabet.

              I got a friend from Belgium who's parents are from Macedonia but he was born there, he speaks French and when we speak to eachother in Macedonian its really funny because he has a French Accent and he pronounces Macedonian words in a strong French Accent and its really funny when you hear it.

              Rogi, Here is an example with Zoran Zaev, he first speaks traditional Macedonian and then when he switches to Strumicki its much harder to understand him.

              YouTube - Seljak izjava
              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

              Comment

              • Rogi
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 2343

                #8
                I'm not talking about Spiro's accent. I am talking about Dzog's comments about Lubi's grasp of the Macedonian language, in his own dialect.

                Comment

                • El Bre
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 713

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                  I'm not talking about Spiro's accent. I am talking about Dzog's comments about Lubi's grasp of the Macedonian language, in his own dialect.
                  That is exactly what disturbed me enough to start this thread. It's the kind of divisiveness we don't need.

                  Don't get me wrong though, one is no better than the other in my opinion.

                  Comment

                  • Phoenix
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2008
                    • 4671

                    #10
                    Originally posted by El Bre View Post
                    That is exactly what disturbed me enough to start this thread. It's the kind of divisiveness we don't need.

                    Don't get me wrong though, one is no better than the other in my opinion.
                    El Bre and Rogi, you're both right...its a pity that Maknews has an agenda with Australian Macedonians in general, he finds it difficult to seperate his feud with one or two individuals without lashing out at the wider Australian Macedonian community...

                    On the other hand, a smart bloke like Dzog shouldn't get sucked in, by then attacking ones dialect or language skills. Where do you draw the line with this, you're always going to find somebody who is better educated and more articulate in the use of the Macedonian language, does that make everyone else inferior or less relevent...?

                    Comment

                    • Prolet
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2009
                      • 5241

                      #11
                      Phoenix, Did you struggle to understand Zoran Zaev towards the end there?
                      МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #12
                        Ignorance at its best, as if these dialectal differences were magically conjured a few decades ago.

                        Simplifying the way we write Macedonian in English letters would go a long way. I don't like the catering to the English or Greek language that is done with words such as 'Petroff' rather than 'Petrov' and 'Oushche' instead of 'Ushche'. The sound of Petrov is phonetically quite often heard as 'Petrof', but feminine 'Petrova' not 'Petrofa', and in the old Macedonian texts from the 19th century it is written with a 'v' in most if not all cases. A simple thing like using the same style of writing with English letters can minimise alot of the perceived 'differences'.

                        The difference between 'Ushche' and 'Ushte' (which in Bitola can also sound like 'Ushe') to me is virtually non-existent. 'Shto' is 'Sho' in Bitola, but 'Shcho' elsewhere - Did Tito and Koneski created these differences? Of course not. Many Macedonians from all sides of the borders and diaspora need to educate themselves a little before parroting the false assumptions of the ignorant and our enemies.

                        Would it make a difference if I could show you all examples of the above features and differences from the 19th century? I can see the point of El Bre's concerns, but I would think the title of the thread should read "How long will the ignorance last", with ignorance easily substituted by stupidity if the topic is widened to include creative terminology like Serbadonian and RoMulan. It is because of the undecated and ignorant that these conversations take place in such a manner.

                        If you want to talk about the Macedonian language, pick up a book and read something first.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • indigen
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 1558

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                          Ignorance at its best, as if these dialectal differences were magically conjured a few decades ago.

                          Simplifying the way we write Macedonian in English letters would go a long way. I don't like the catering to the English or Greek language that is done with words such as 'Petroff' rather than 'Petrov' and 'Oushche' instead of 'Ushche'. The sound of Petrov is phonetically quite often heard as 'Petrof', but feminine 'Petrova' not 'Petrofa', and in the old Macedonian texts from the 19th century it is written with a 'v' in most if not all cases. A simple thing like using the same style of writing with English letters can minimise a lot of the perceived 'differences'.

                          The difference between 'Ushche' and 'Ushte' (which in Bitola can also sound like 'Ushe') to me is virtually non-existent. 'Shto' is 'Sho' in Bitola, but 'Shcho' elsewhere - Did Tito and Koneski create these differences? Of course not. Many Macedonians from all sides of the borders and Diaspora need to educate themselves a little before parroting the false assumptions of the ignorant and our enemies.

                          Would it make a difference if I could show you all examples of the above features and differences from the 19th century? I can see the point of El Bre's concerns, but I would think the title of the thread should read "How long will the ignorance last", with ignorance easily substituted by stupidity if the topic is widened to include creative terminology like Serbadonian and RoMulan. It is because of the uneducated and ignorant that these conversations take place in such a manner.

                          If you want to talk about the Macedonian language, pick up a book and read something first.
                          Excellent points, SOM! It seems to me that there are too many ideological fog-heads about that need the fog cleared from their brains.

                          Cheers

                          Comment

                          • BigMak
                            Banned
                            • Jan 2009
                            • 209

                            #14
                            Originally posted by Prolet View Post
                            Phoenix, Did you struggle to understand Zoran Zaev towards the end there?
                            AT THE END i DID NOT UNDERSTAND A THING....lol

                            Comment

                            • Prolet
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 5241

                              #15
                              Bigmak, I struggled myself especially with the speed of that talking, i understood in the end but it was difficult in the beginning.
                              МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                              Comment

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