Ancient quotes on Macedonia

[George S.]

the german citizenry i think will not put up anymore bs from the greeks.As the debt has to be worn like a heavy noose by the germans in the eu.Look how silkly it is despite all the bs destruction greece has done it got another go in the presidency of the eu.

[Nikolaj]

Money money money.

EU will not allow it, after all the millions of dollars invested into Greece.

The EU will fight for its investment, America would support the EU.

How long does a political party take to control the country after an election? There is always a process period where the government is inactive.

The length of the period of separation would be long and costly; people that had originally voted for independence wouldn’t have the tolerance and discipline to stand strong, half way though there would be doubts risen and constant opposition.

People would chicken out; they would lose confidence after they realize “it’s not so easy.”

I would like confirmation; I have been told that Aegean Macedonia makes more money from export then the Greek lands and if it was to separate, it could support itself very well.

What I had discussed is not a national movement but a financial one, it’s not about minority or majority it’s based on, if you love the land of which you live Aegean Macedonia, then support it. Why should the Aegean’s work so hard to pay off Greece’s debt, how much money does Athens soak out of the Macedonia Aegean a year?

Great investment wasn't it EU.. They were pretty much spoon fed, and yet they still couldn't hold.

[George S.]

the eu and the like don't get any dummer.They are there to be taken advantage of.Power of veto .presidency huuge loans you can't pay back what more does want.??

[Amphipolis]

I would like confirmation; I have been told that Aegean Macedonia makes more money from export then the Greek lands and if it was to separate, it could support itself very well.

Macedonia contributed 19-20% of Greek exports both in 2011 and 2012.

------------
This is a google translation of main exported products per district and the countries they're basically exported to:

The main export products

Prefecture of Thessaloniki

The main export products of the prefecture of Thessaloniki in 2012 were:

In-oil from bituminous minerals (other than crude). Other (in Macedonia, Kosovo, Serbia)

- Polypropylene, in primary forms (to Turkey)

-Light Oils and preparations (for Turkey, Macedonia, Kosovo, UK. N. Emirates)

-Vamvaki, Not carded or combed (to Turkey)

Cane-sugar or beet sugar and chemically pure sucrose, in solid form (for Bulgaria)

-Marmara And travertine, crude or roughly trimmed (to China)

-Farmaka Consisting of mixed or unmixed products for therapeutic or prophylactic uses, put up in measured doses or put up for retail sale (except those containing antibiotics (to Germany)

-Smoking Without removing the stems (to Belgium)

-shirts- Sweaters and blouses-shirts "blouses", woven, of synthetic or artificial fibers, knitted or crocheted, other than T-shirts and vests (to Germany)

-Farmaka Containing antibiotics, put up in measured doses or put up for retail sale, other than those containing penicillins or derivatives thereof "penicillanic acid structure", streptomycin or their derivatives (for Germany)
--------------------------------------

Grevena

The main export products of the prefecture of Grevena in 2012 were:

-Tyria (To Sweden, Germany, United. Kingdom, Denmark)

-Plate-Fibreboard of wood or other ligneous materials (for Bulgaria, Italy)

-Gingerbread And the like (for Romania)

-Gounodermata Mink rough (in the Netherlands)

---------------------------------------------------
Drama

The main export products of Drama in 2012 were:

-Marmara And travertine, crude or roughly trimmed (to China, Taiwan)

-Marmaro, Travertine and alabaster and articles thereof (for Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Brazil, UK. N. Emirates, USA, Cyprus)

-Vamvaki (To Italy, Turkey)

-What-Shirts, singlets and other vests, knitted or crocheted, of textile materials (to France)

-Wines of fresh grapes (to Germany)
-----------------------------------------------
Prefecture Imathias

The main export products of Imathia in 2012 were:

-Rodakina, Including the brugnons and nectarines, fresh (to Russia, Ukraine)

-Glyka Preserves, marmalades, fruit purée and pastes, fruit (to Russia, Ukraine)

-Rodakina All kinds, prepared or preserved, whether or not containing added sugar, other sweetening matter or spirit (to United. Kingdom, Germany, Thailand, France)

-Lachanika, Nuts and other edible parts of plants, prepared or preserved by vinegar or acetic acid, except cucumbers, gherkins and onions (to Germany)

-Aktinidia, Fresh (in Russia)

-Fraoules, Fresh (in Russia)
--------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Kavala

The main export products of Kavala in 2012 were:

In-oil from bituminous minerals (other than crude) .But (for Efod.ploion with EU countries, Macedonia)

-Stafylia, Fresh (to Germany)

-Sparangia, Fresh or chilled (to Germany)

-Stafylia, Dried (to Germany)

-Lipasmata Mineral or chemical (to Turkey, Macedonia)

-Vamvaki, Not carded or combed (to Turkey)

-Sitari And meslin: Other (to Turkey)

- Tobacco without removing the stems (in Indonesia)

-Marmaro, Travertine and alabaster, random form, polished, decorated or otherwise worked (for Saudi Arabia)

-Epivatika Ships, excursion boats and similar vessels principally designed for the transport of persons, and ferries (to Chile)

-Petres Suitable for lafxesi or building (to Belgium)

-Lipasmata Mineral or chemical (in Macedonia)

-Marmara And travertine, merely cut, by sawing or otherwise, into blocks or slabs of a square or rectangle (Turkmenistan)
------------------------------------------
Kastoria

The main export products of the prefecture of Kastoria in 2012 were:

-Endymata And clothing accessories, of furskins (to Russia, UK. Arab Emirates, Cyprus, Hong Kong, Italy, Germany)

-Ravdoi And rods of iron or non-alloy steel (to Albania)

-Gounodermata Raw mink, whole, with or without heads, tails or paws (to Denmark, Finland, Italy)

-Gounodermata Tanned or mink, whole, with or without heads, tails or paws, not assembled (to Germany, Italy, N. Korea, United. Kingdom)

-Plate-Fibreboard of wood or other ligneous materials (in Albania)

-Endymata And clothing accessories, of furskins (to Hong Kong, Italy, Germany

Malic, fresh (to Egypt)

-Gounodermata Tanned or mink, whole, with or without heads, tails or paws, not assembled (to China)

-Kefalia, Tails, paws and other pieces or cuttings and waste, tanned or dressed furskins, not assembled (to China)
--------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Kilkis

The main export products of Kilkis in 2012 were:

-Anelkystires Persons and cargo lifts (to Russia, United. Kingdom)

In-oil from bituminous minerals, other than crude (to Macedonia)

-Construction And parts of structures, of aluminum (to France, Romania, Hungary, Germany)

Aluminum-state Unwrought (in Albania, Serbia)

-Some Of passenger lifts, skip hoists or escalators (to Turkey)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Kozani

The main export products of the prefecture of Kozani in 2012 were:

-Olive Oil and its fractions, obtained solely from olives using mechanical or physical means under conditions that do not lead to alterations in the oil, virgin (to Italy)

-Some Of machinery of heading 8428 (for FYROM)

-Endymata And clothing accessories, of furskins (to Germany, UK. Arab Emirates)

-Gounodermata Raw mink, whole, with or without heads, tails or paws (to Poland, Finland, Denmark)

-Leather Rough, with the wool of sheep, fresh or salted, dried, limed, with limed pickled or otherwise preserved (to Turkey)

-Special Than furskins (to Cyprus)

-Gounodermata Tanned or mink, whole, with or without heads, tails or paws, not assembled (to Germany)

-Leather Entire raw, weighing more than 16 kg (to Serbia)

-Mixes And doughs of flour, meal, starch or malt extract (to Germany, Romania)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Pella

The main export products of the prefecture of Pella in 2012 were:

-Rodakina All kinds, prepared or preserved (in Thailand, Germany, Poland, USA, France, Czech Republic, Italy, Hungary)

-Rodakina, Including the brugnons and nectarines, fresh (in Russia)

-Karpoi And nuts, edible, uncooked or cooked by steaming or boiling in water, frozen, not containing added sugar or other sweetening matter (to Germany)

-Saligkaria Other than seafood (to France)

-Aktinidia, Fresh (in Russia)

-Portokalia, Fresh or dried (to Romania)

-Karpoi Nuts and other edible parts of plants, otherwise prepared or

preserved, whether or not containing added sugar or other sweetening matter or spirit (to Germany)

-Mantarinia (In Russia)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Pieria

The main export products of Pieria in 2012 were:

-Smoking Without removing the stems (for Bulgaria)

-Elies, Prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid, not frozen (to Germany, Sweden, USA, Australia, Italy, Romania)

-Polyfota And other electric lighting for ceiling or wall (to Norway)

-Synagermoi For burglary, theft or fire and similar devices (to Italy, Portugal)

-Pulp Cleaning (to Turkey)

-Sitari And smigadi.gia seed (to Italy)

-Aktinidia, Fresh (to United. Kingdom)

-Syndesmoi, Fittings and couplers coupling pipes, copper alloy (to Germany)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Serres

The main export products of Serres in 2012 were:

-Vamvaki, Not carded or combed (to Turkey, China, Japan, Bulgaria, Italy, Indonesia)

-Sitari And meslin. Other (to Italy)

-Mallia Slag hair wool and similar mineral wools, even mixed together, in bulk, sheets or rolls (to Italy, Bulgaria)

-Other Seeds and oleaginous fruits, whether or not broken: other (to Italy)

-Giaourti, Whether or not flavored, containing added sugar, other sweetening matter, fruits, nuts or cocoa (Denmark, Germany)

-shoes With outer soles and uppers of rubber or plastics (to Bulgaria)

-Lachanika, Nuts and other edible parts of plants, prepared or preserved by vinegar or acetic acid, except cucumbers, gherkins and onions (to Romania, Bulgaria)

Preparations diet (to Turkey)

-Ntomates Prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid, other than whole or in pieces (for the Netherlands)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Florina

The main export products of Florina in 2012 were:

-Arapika Peanuts (groundnuts), prepared or preserved, other than preserved by sugar (to Macedonia, UK. Arab Emirates)

-motor Trucks (in Macedonia)

-Sokolata And other food preparations containing cocoa (in Macedonia, Saudi Arabia, Oman)

-Psiktres Constituting parts of machines, appliances or vehicles (to Spain)

-Nuts And other seeds (in Macedonia)

-Wines of fresh grapes (to Germany, China, USA, Cyprus, Russia, Canada, Belgium)

-Pulp Levels and paperboard assembled by welding, uncoated surface or impregnated, whether or not internally reinforced, in rolls or sheets (in Macedonia)

-Pulp And paperboard, bleached uniformly throughout the mass (in Macedonia)

-Engineered devices, even by hand, to disperse, firing or spraying liquids or powders for agriculture or horticulture (in Macedonia)
---------------------------------------------------------
Prefecture of Chalkidiki

The main export products of Halkidiki in 2012 were:

-Elies, Prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid, not frozen (to Germany, Romania, In.Vasileio, Italy, Belgium)

-Other Vegetables prepared or preserved otherwise than by vinegar or acetic acid (in Germany)

-Wines of fresh grapes (Germany)

-Metallefmata Zinc concentrates thereof (in Russia)

-Poltoi Chemical wood "soda or sulphate", semi-milled or wholly milled rice, except those on dialysis, and apart from chemical pulp from coniferous wood (to Serbia)

-Oil and other products of the distillation of high temperature coal tar, and similar products where the aromatic constituents exceeds that weight of the non-aromatic constituents (for Bulgaria)

-Tsimenta, Mortars, concretes and similar compositions, other than preparations based on graphite or other carbon (to Bulgaria, Ukraine)

[Philosopher]

Xerxes asked his guides if there were any other outlet for the Peneus into the sea, and they, with their full knowledge of the matter, answered him: “The river, O king, has no other way into the sea, but this alone. This is so because there is a ring of mountains around the whole of Thessaly.” Upon hearing this Xerxes said: “These Thessalians are wise men; [2] this, then, was the primary reason for their precaution long before1 when they changed to a better mind, for they perceived that their country would be easily and speedily conquerable.

This speech was made by Xerxes when he went to spy out the land and the surrounding mountains of Thessaly. He left Therma for this purpose. At this point in time, he was aware that the Thessalians had surrendered themselves. When this happened is not clear. The footnote reads:

As a matter of fact the Thessalians had determined on their policy very recently indeed; but Xerxes apparently supposes that they had resolved to join him from the first.

Very recently is vague. Herodotus 7.6 is written after Herodotus 7.130, but it seems to relate the Thessalians submitting to Xerxes. But these texts out of chronological order. When were the Thessalians aware of Xerxes ambitions? When did they visit him? Before reaching Therma or after? The evidence seems to suggest before, but either way, I'm not sure it really matters, for Herodotus did not regard Macedonia as part of Greece.

When Xerxes saw from Therma the very great height of the Thessalian mountains Olympus and Ossa and learned that the Peneus flows through them in a narrow pass, which was the way that led into Thessaly, he desired to view the mouth of the Peneus because he intended to march by the upper road through the highland people of Macedonia to the country of the Perrhaebi and the town of Gonnus 7.128

The more you read this, the more it sinks in. The “highland people of Macedonia” is clearly a description of a foreign, non-Greek, barbarian people. No other explanation is possible. Another interesting aspect of this quote is Borza's remarks:

Moreover, the insistence that Alexander is a Greek, and descendant from Greeks, rubs against the spirit of Herodotus 7.130, who speaks of the Thessalians as the first Greeks to come under Persian submission--a perfect opportunity for Herodotus to point out that the Macedonians were a non Greek race ruled over by Greek kings, something he nowhere mentions.

What is interesting to note is that while the Thessalians submitted to the king of Persia, there is no evidence at all that the “highland people of Macedonia” did also. Yet, from reading Herodotus, it is obvious that the king of Persia launched a military campaign from Macedonia, and in particular, Thessaloníki. Now this is kind of odd. Here we have, apparently, a non-Greek people ruled over by a self-proclaimed Greek king, and yet there is no evidence of Macedonian resistance to the king of Persia. Instead, it appears that the king of Persia was given authorization to launch his campaign against Greece from that location. Why would the Greek king of the region grant this? There is no indication in Herodotus that the king of Macedon made an agreement with the king of Persia, though clearly one would have existed. Otherwise, one would expect some resistance on behalf of Macedonian sovereignty.

If the Macedonians were Greek, and Macedonia was part of Greece, one would expect something very different. If Macedonia was part of the Greek world, one would expect Herodotus to describe betrayal on the part of the Macedonian king and/or its people; one would find some statement that, like the Thessalians, the Macedonians submitted to the Persians to avoid a military confrontation; and one would expect some evidence that the military campaign against Greece commenced in Greece.

No such evidence is found anywhere.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Lest we forget Strabo:

They also say that the clothing of the Armenians is Thessalian, for example, the long tunics, which in tragedies are called Thessalian and are girded round the breast; and also the cloaks that are fastened on with clasps, another way in which the tragedians imitated the Thessalians, for the tragedians had to have some alien decoration of this kind; and since the Thessalians in particular wore long robes, probably because they of all the Greeks lived in the most northerly and coldest region, they were the most suitable objects of imitation for actors in their theatrical make-ups. [Strabo: 11.14.12]

"The Thessalians of all the Greeks lived in the most northerly region..."

And what does Isocrates have to say of Phillip?
Let's see:

For they endeavored to win this honor by engendering factions, disorder, and bloodshed in their own cities; he, on the other hand, held entirely aloof from Hellenic territory, and set his heart upon occupying the throne of Macedon. (For he knew full well that) the Hellenes were not accustomed to submit to the rule of one man, while the other races were incapable of ordering their lives without the control of (some) such power. [Isocrates: p.107]

So doesn't the logic follow that since the Thessalians were the "most northerly Greeks" and Phillip was entirely aloof from Hellenic territory that the Macedonians were outside of the Greek world? Now, one could make the argument that being aloof from Greek lands does not make one "Un-Greek." So on to the issue of a Macedonian ethnicity. While it is a convoluted issue, there are very obvious distinctions made between Macedonian and Greek. And while the term "barbaroi" has many meanings, it is not difficult to understand which definition describes the Macedonians.

Here's what Diodorus Siculus has to say:

For many days the king lay helpless under his treatment, and the Greeks who had been settled in Bactria and Sogdiana, who had long borne unhappily their sojourn among peoples of another race and now received word that the king has died of his wounds, revolted against the Macedonians. They formed a band of 3000 men and underwent great hardship on their homeward route. Later they were massacred by the Macedonians after Alexander’s death. [Diodorus Siculus: 17.99.5-6]

And this:

The commandant of the garrison of that city, Archelaus, who was a Macedonian by race, welcomed Attalus and surrendered the city to him… [Diodorus Siculus: 18.37.3-4]

Thrasymachus has this to say about king Archelaus:

Shall we being Greeks, be slaves to Archelaus, a barbarian?

Very clear distinctions are made between the Macedonians and Greeks. And given that the Greeks considered Macedonians as "barbaroi" in the sense that they were unrelated, wouldn't it be reasonable to not think of Macedonians as Greeks?

Some Greek reading this: But what of the claim of their Argive descent!?

...is the Peloponnesian Argos the only Argos that exists? Is there not another Argos in the region of Macedonia? Ah, there is! What was Macedonia called in earlier times? Emathia.

Here's what Polybius has to say about Emathia:

...he had better remove from the most important cities, and those along the sea-coast, the leading citizens, with their wives and children, and place them in Emathia, formerly called Paeonia, and fill up the cities with Thracians... as (they are) likely to be more securely loyal to him in the coming hour of danger. [Polybius 23.10.4]

Why would Thracians, the other "barbaroi," be more loyal to him? Maybe because they were related "barbaroi."

And according to Strabo, Paeonia extended to Pieria and Pelagonia:

Some represent the Paeonians as colonists from the Phrygians, while others represent them as independent founders. And it is said that Paeonia has extended as far as Pelagonia and Pieria; that Pelagonia was called Orestia in earlier times, that Asteropaeus, one of the leaders who made the expedition from Paeonia to Troy, was not without good reason called "son of Pelegon," and that the Paeonians themselves were called Pelagonians.[Strab. 7.fragments.38]

Now, at some point, Latin writers began to write of Thessaly as Emathia, but that is because Macedonia at that time included Thessaly.

Also, notice how even the Paeonians, a Thraco-Illyrian mix, were called Pelagonians. And how some regarded them as descendants from the Phrygians, who, in earlier times, were called the "Brigoi." It would appear to me that the Macedonians, if not descendants of the Paeonians, had at least some relation to them. Maybe not everyone can come to that conclusion, and that's fine. But it should be kept in mind that the Paeonians, Thracians, and Macedonians were all regarded as "barbaroi." And while some Greeks did call other Greeks "barbaroi," they meant it as an insult for deviating from what was the social norm (that being Hellenic culture). Yet when it comes to the Macedonians, it ought to be clear that they were a different class of "barbaroi," aloof from the Greek world.

Now, on to mythology. Makedon, the eponymous founder of the Macedonians, is said to be the son of many different deities. In Greek mythology, he is cited as being the son of Zeus and Thyia (Hesiod), the son of Aeolus and Hellen (Eustathius), the son of Osiris (Diodorus Siculus), and the son of Lycaon (Apollodorus). Strange how he's even related to Egyptian gods. Is this a very good way to judge the origin of the Macedonians? It would be foolish to claim that since mythology says so, it must be so. After all, according to Greek mythology, even other non-Greek people are related to Greek gods. For example, according to Hesoid's "Theogony," Latinus was the son of Odysseus and Circe, and was the brother of Graecus by Pandora II.

And Circe the daughter of Helius, Hyperion's son, loved steadfast Odysseus and bore Agrius and Latinus who was faultless and strong...[Hes. Th. 1011]

Are the Greeks and Latin people related now? If mythology is realty, then I suppose so.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Now, rather than continuing my lengthy reply, I will continue here:

The following is speculation:
So, the region Emathia was previously called Paeonia and it included regions such as Pieria and Pelagonia. The Macedonian Argos is within this range. It seems to me that it was a convenient coincidence that there also happened to be an Argos in Greek territory. After all, the Macedonian kings needed to "prove" their Greek descent somehow, so of course they'd choose that as their place of origin. As for their identity, however, it wouldn't be too far fetched to assume that they were at least related to Thracians. He's a brief flowchart of my assumptions:

Paeonians are Thraco-Illyrian -> Paeonia once stretched into Pieria -> this was also called Emathia -> in "Emathia," there is also an Argos -> the Macedonians are from that Argos -> being from that Argos means they are either descendants of, or a branch of the south-western Paeonians -> being that close to Greek regions such as Thessaly and Epirus, it is no surprise that even from the earliest times they would have been more prone to Greek influence than the European Phrygians and the Paeonians, thus making easier to become Hellenized.

It should now be noted that, of the cognates that are found between Macedonian and Greek, roughly half of them are found in Doric dialects (mainly Epirotic Greek). And of the known Macedonian words, only 40-some have Greek cognates if we give Greek a very liberal meaning. If we don't consider "Koine" as a Greek dialect, but rather an offshoot of Macedonian and Greek, then the list is even smaller. Then, the rest of the known Macedonian words share no relation to any Greek dialect, have some cognates in Thracian and fewer in Illyrian. Thus, maybe Macedonian was actually it's own language, rather than just a dialect.
If it requested, I will be more than happy to post all of the known Macedonian words that I have found in the "Ancient Macedonian Language" forum.

[sydney]

New discoveries are needed to offer further study and perspectives. If you see a gap in what already exists on the forum please go ahead and post the research, it would be greatly appreciated.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Well there are plenty of gaps in any research; especially when it is in regards to events that happened 4000+ years ago. But that's what this forum is for; we all are here to present all sides of the debate and to do research ourselves. And I have posted what I believe are interesting quotes to consider. Of course I will be doing more of my own research (when I get the time) and will gladly share it.

[Philosopher]

Well there are plenty of gaps in any research; especially when it is in regards to events that happened 4000+ years ago. But that's what this forum is for; we all are here to present all sides of the debate and to do research ourselves. And I have posted what I believe are interesting quotes to consider. Of course I will be doing more of my own research (when I get the time) and will gladly share it.

Welcome to the forum.

You have made a solid introduction.

I'm not sure I agree with your "Argive" interpretation though.

Keep up the good work.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Can any of you provide the quote from Appian's "Roman History" where he mentions that the Macedonians are from the Orestian Argos (in Macedonia)? I believe this should help: Appian. Roman History, 11.63.333

[DedoAleko]

Ξυνηθροίζοντο οὖν ἐν τ Δοβήρῳ καὶ παρεσκευάζοντο, ὅπως κατὰ
κορυφὴν ἐσβαλοῦσιν ἐς τὴν κάτω Μακεδονίαν, ἧς ὁ Περδίκκας
ἦρχεν. Τῶν γὰρ Μακεδόνων εἰσὶ καὶ Λυγκησταὶ καὶ ̓Ελιμιῶται
καὶ ἄλλα ἔθνη ἐπάνωθεν, ἃ ξύμμαχα μέν ἐστι τούτοις καὶ ὑπήκοα,
βασιλείας δ ̓ ἔχει καθ ̓ αὑτά. Τὴν δὲ παρὰ θάλασσαν νῦν
Μακεδονίαν ̓Αλέξανδρος ὁ Περδίκκου πατὴρ καὶ οἱ πρόγονοι
αὐτοῦ, Τημενίδαι τὸ ἀρχαῖον ὄντες ἐξ ̓́Αργους, πρῶτοι ἐκτήσαντο
καὶ ἐβασίλευσαν ἀναστήσαντες μάχῃ ἐκ μὲν Πιερίας Πίαρες, οἳ
ὕτερον ὑπὸ τὸ Πάγγαιον πέραν Στρυμόνος ᾤκησαν Φάγρητα καὶ
ἄλλα χωρία (καὶ ἔτι καὶ νῦν Πιερικὸς κόλπος καλεῖται ἡ ὑπὸ τῷ
Παγγαίῳ πρὸς θάλασσαν γῆ), ἐκ δὲ τῆς Βοττίας καλουμένης
Βοττιαίους, οἳ νῦν ὅμοροι Χαλκιδέων οἰκοῦσιν· τῆς δὲ Παιονίας
παρὰ τὸν ̓Αξιοῦ μέχρι Στρυμόνος τὴν Μυγδονίαν καλουμένην
̓Ηδῶνας ἐξελάσαντες νέμονται. ἀνέστησαν δὲ καὶ ἐκ τῆς νῦν
̓Εορδίας καλουμένης ̓Εορδούς, ὧν οἱ μὲν πολλοὶ ἐφθάρησαν,
βραχὺ δέ τι αὐτῶν περὶ Φύσκαν κατῴκηται, καὶ ἐξ ̓Αλμωπίας
̓́Αλμωπας. ἐκράτησαν δὲ καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἐθνῶν οἱ Μακεδόνες
οὗτοι, ἃ καὶ νῦν τι ἔχουσι, τόν τε ̓Ανθεμοῦντα καὶ Γρηστωνίαν καὶ
Βισαλτίαν καὶ Μακεδόνων αὐτῶν πολλήν.

So they [i.e., the Thracians] gathered and made their preparations in
Doberus, so that from that height they could attack down into Lower
Macedonia,
which Perdiccas ruled. The Lynkestai, Elimiotai, and other
tribes of the Macedonians, who are allies and subjects of the lowland
Macedonians but have their own kings, inhabit the highlands. The current
land of Macedonia by the sea was first conquered by
Alexander,
Perdiccas’ father, and his ancestors, who were Temenidae from Argos.
They were the first to hold and rule this land after having uprooted the
Pierians from Pieria, who later settled Phagres and other places by Mount
Pangaeus beyond the Strymon
River (and even now the land from Mount
Pangaeus to the sea is called the Pieriean bay). They also uprooted the
Bottiaians, who are now the neighbors of the Chalkideans, from Bottiaia.
They also conquered the strip of Paionian land near the Axios River t
hat
stretches to Pella and the sea, and the land called Mygdonia beyond the
Axios that stretches to the Strymon, having expelled the Edonians. They
also uprooted the Eordians from what is now called Eordia
-
many of
whom died, though a few of them settled
near Physca
-
and the Almopians
from Almopia. These Macedonians also conquered other tribes, whom
they rule even now: Anthemon and Grestonia and Bisaltia and a lot [of the
land] of the Macedonians themselves.
(Thuc. 2.99)

TheNikoWhiteIch, I think you might find what you look for in the link. This is very interesting read. Sorry if repost:
Character and Rhetorical Strategy: Philip II of Macedonia in
Fourth Century Athens by Dina S. Guth

[Amphipolis]

Can any of you provide the quote from Appian's "Roman History" where he mentions that the Macedonians are from the Orestian Argos (in Macedonia)? I believe this should help: Appian. Roman History, 11.63.333

63] Thus Seleucus died at the age of seventy-three, having reigned forty-two years. It seems to me that the oracle hit the mark in his case when it said to him, "Do not hurry back to Europe; Asia will be much better for you," for Lysimacheia is in Europe, and he then crossed over to Europe for the first time after leaving it with the army of Alexander. It is said also that once when he consulted an oracle in reference to his own death he received this answer:--

"If you keep away from Argos you will reach your allotted year, but if you approach that place you will die before your time."

There is an Argos in Peloponnesus, another in Amphilochia, another in Orestea (whence come the Macedonian Argeadæ), and the one on the Ionian sea, said to have been built by Diomedes during his wanderings, -- all these, and every place named Argos in every other country, Seleucus inquired about and avoided. While he was advancing from the Hellespont to Lysimacheia a splendid great altar presented itself to his view, which he was told had been built either by the Argonauts on their way to Colchis, or by the Achæans who besieged Troy, for which reason the people in the neighborhood still called it Argos, either by a corruption of the name of the ship Argo, or from the native place of the sons of Atreus. While he was learning these things he was killed by Ptolemy, who stabbed him in the back. Philetzerus, the prince of Pergamus, bought the body of Seleucus from Ceraunus for a large sum of money, burned it, and sent the ashes to his son Antiochus. The latter deposited them at Seleucia-by-the-Sea, where he erected a temple to his father on consecrated ground, to which ground he gave the name of Nicatoreum.

Appian, Syrian Wars, 10, 63

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0230%3Atext%3DSyr.%3Achapter%3D10

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[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Aphimpolis,
Thank you. I had trouble finding it on the site that I usually check.

[TheNikoWhiteIch]

Which Argos is which?

In searching for the origin of the "Macedonian Argeads," I have come across a few inconsistencies that make this matter complicated. This is mostly the result of there being several different places called "Argos" in the region of Macedonia.

The following quote was provided by Aphimpolis:

There is an Argos in Peloponnesus, another in Amphilochia, another in Orestea (whence come the Macedonian Argeadæ), and the one on the Ionian sea, said to have been built by Diomedes during his wanderings...

Source: Appian, Syrian Wars, 10, 63

That appears to agree with Thomas Hobbe's footnote in his translation of Thucydides' account of the Peloponnesian War. Hobbe's says the following:

"For the Macedonians belong to the Lyncestae, who though confederates of and subject to these Macedonians have still...
The original Macedonians, a nation referred by Muller to the Illyrian race, are supposed to have been confined, in their earliest settlements, to Maketa, a district of Orestis. That which is generally called Macedonia proper, is divided into upper and lower Macedonia. The former comprises the districts of Elimeia, Lyncestis, and Orestis: which last took its name from the mountains (ori) wherein they dwelt...Lower Macedonia, which appears to have been a later acquisition of the Maketai, and to have originally been called Emathia, comprised the districts of Edessa and Beroea. This part, inhabited originally by the Pelasgians, fell into the power of the Temenidae..."

However, other sources distinguish between 3 different places called "Argos" in the region of Macedonia.

Regarding Argos Oresticon, I found this:

"ARGOS ORESTICUM (Ἄργος Ὀρεστικόν), the chief town of the Orestae, said to have been founded by Orestes, when he fled from Argos after the murder of his mother. (Strab. vii. p.326.) Strabo (l.c.) places these Orestae in Epirus; and they must probably be distinguished from the Macedonian Orestae, who dwelt near the sources of the Haliacmon, on the frontiers of Illyria. Stephanus B. (s. v. Ἄργος) mentions an Argos in Macedonia, as well as Argos Oresticum; and Hierocles (p. 641) also speaks of a Macedonian Argos. Moreover, Ptolemy (3.13. § § 5, 22) distinguishes clearly between an Epirot and a Macedonian Orestias, assigning to each a town Amantia. Hence the Macedonian Argos appears to have been a different place from Argos Oresticum. The former was probably situated in the plain of Anaselítza, near the sources of the Haliacmon, which plain is called “Argestaeus Campus” by Livy (27.33; Leake, Northern Greece, vol. iv. p. 121, who, however, confounds the Macedonian Argos with Argos Oresticum). The site of Argos Oresticum is uncertain; but a modern writer places it near Ambracia, since Stephanus calls the Orestae (s. v.) a Molossian people. (Tafel, in Pauly's Realencycl. vol. i. p. 738.)"

Source: Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography, illustrated by numerous engravings on wood. William Smith, LLD. London. Walton and Maberly, Upper Gower Street and Ivy Lane, Paternoster Row; John Murray, Albemarle Street. 1854.

So it appears that Argos Oresticon was different from this "Macedonian Argos." However, with this "Macedonian Argos" being along the Haliacmon, I cannot help but to wonder if it is the same as the Argos called ARGOS PELASGICUM. This is about Argos Pelasgicum:

ARGOS PELA´SGICUM (Ἄργος Πελασγικόν), was probably employed by Homer (Hom. Il. 2.681) to signify the whole of Thessaly. Some critics have supposed that by Pelasgic Argos the poet alluded to a city, and that this city was the same as the Thessalian Larissa; but it has been correctly observed, “that the line of the Catalogue in which Pelasgic Argos is named marks a separation of the poet's topography of Southern Greece and the Islands from that of Northern Greece; and that by Pelasgic Argos he meant Pelasgic Greece, or the country included within the mountains Cnemis, Oeta, Pindus, and Olympus, and stretching eastward to the sea; in short, Thessaly in its most extended sense.” (Leake, Northern Greece, vol. iv. p. 532.)

According to an image in the Wikipedia page on the ancient Macedonians, the tribes that lived between the river Vardar (Axius) and Bistrica (Haliacmon) are the Argeadae, Orestae, Eordi, Brygi, Lyncestae, Pelagones, Enchelae, and the Pieriai neighbor the Argeadae but are on the other side of the Bistrica (Haliacmon) river. I'm not certain if these Argeadae are the same people that inhabited this Pelasgian Argos (assuming this place is different from the Macedonian one), but they likely inhabited the Macedonian Argos since they are on the borders of the Bistrica (Haliacmon) river.

What are your guys' thoughts on this? Is this Pelasgian Argos the same as the Macedonian Argos? If so, then this could mean that the Macedonians belong to the Pelasgian race.