carnivorous or vegetarian?

[Gocka]

Gocka,

Have u perfected the art of kebapi, what meat do you use, straight out pork or a combo of pork and something else...which spices are you playing with...?

Well based on some research i have found there are two basic styles. Beef and lamb, and Beef and Pork. Its hard to find good lamb here because Americans don't eat it, in fact in the US they don't distinguish between lamb (young) and mutton (grown). So it all says lamb but is usually mutton which is too strong and stinks.

So far my favorite mix was as follows.

52% Ground beef, which is made with a beef cut like a top round. this has 8% fat roughly, and I want the total fat of the beef to be 25% so the rest is beef fat (suet). You can also buy straight 75% lean ground beef.

48% Pork, made from a fattier pork like boneless rib ends at about 12 % fat. This is ground and then brought up to about 30% fat with pig fat (lard).

So in case people don't understand the percentages that means if I have a mix of 1000 grams ground meat. 520g will be beef and beef fat, 480g will be pork and pork fat. Of the 520g a 130g will be fat. The meat it itself will contribute fat. It comes out to be roughly 430g of beef with 100g of fat added to make the meat 25% fat. Then the pork is 480g of which 145 need to be fat. This ends up being 380g of pork with 100g of pork fat.

Then spices are a % of the total weight of meat. so at 1000g of meat mix you need

3% salt 30g
0.50% black pepper 5g
.50% chili 5g (mild)
.50% paprika 5g (mild)
.25 crushed red pepper (spicy)
2 spoons parsley
1% garlic 10g
1% onion 10g
6% sour cream (kajmak)
1 spoon olive oil

The key is that they need to be grilled at very high temps over flames. They need to char quickly on the outside so they don't lose fat. They need to be cooked just long enough for the inside to be cooked and not a second longer. this is the part I find most difficult. But they taste like heaven.

[Gocka]

Gocka,

Have u perfected the art of kebapi, what meat do you use, straight out pork or a combo of pork and something else...which spices are you playing with...?

Well based on some research i have found there are two basic styles. Beef and lamb, and Beef and Pork. Its hard to find good lamb here because Americans don't eat it, in fact in the US they don't distinguish between lamb (young) and mutton (grown). So it all says lamb but is usually mutton which is too strong and stinks.

So far my favorite mix was as follows.

52% Ground beef, which is made with a beef cut like a top round. this has 8% fat roughly, and I want the total fat of the beef to be 25% so the rest is beef fat (suet). You can also buy straight 75% lean ground beef.

48% Pork, made from a fattier pork like boneless rib ends at about 12 % fat. This is ground and then brought up to about 30% fat with pig fat (lard).

So in case people don't understand the percentages that means if I have a mix of 1000 grams ground meat. 520g will be beef and beef fat, 480g will be pork and pork fat. Of the 520g a 130g will be fat. The meat it itself will contribute fat. It comes out to be roughly 430g of beef with 100g of fat added to make the meat 25% fat. Then the pork is 480g of which 145 need to be fat. This ends up being 380g of pork with 100g of pork fat.

Then spices are a % of the total weight of meat. so at 1000g of meat mix you need

3% salt 30g
0.50% black pepper 5g
.50% chili 5g (mild)
.50% paprika 5g (mild)
.25 crushed red pepper (spicy)
2 spoons parsley
1% garlic 10g
1% onion 10g
6% sour cream (kajmak)
1 spoon olive oil

The key is that they need to be grilled at very high temps over flames. They need to char quickly on the outside so they don't lose fat. They need to be cooked just long enough for the inside to be cooked and not a second longer. this is the part I find most difficult. But they taste like heaven.

[George S.]

to all those people advocating to eat this or that in most cases its a wild generalization devoid of the real facts.examples that fish are really badfor you.We have been told omega 3 acids are good for us etc on and on.At the same time you are what you eat.

[DraganOfStip]

Fish is one of the worst foods a human being can eat. I need to qualify that statement.

Farm raised fish is one of the worst foods a human being can eat. Wild fish can also be one of the worst foods a human can eat. You have to be extra careful when eating fish, as even wild fish have high levels of mercury, other heavy metals, contaminants, and radiation. It all depends on the source.

Farm raised fish, such as salmon, should be avoided at all costs.

I don't know where you got all this info from,but I can tell you you're mistaken.
I mean,I've also heard that some fish (especially tuna I think) have high quantity of mercury in them which is bad for pregnant women and their fetus,but saying fish in general is the worst meat one can eat is an overstatement.

Anything "farm raised" as you say might and might not be bad for people,you're entering the sphere of conspiracy theories now.

Fish are nutritious, providing energy, protein, selenium (anti-cancer mineral), zinc, iodine and vitamins A and D. Fish is also an excellent source of readily available long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, which are well known for their health benefits (helps brain tissue and the retina,thus protecting from Alzheimers,dementia and preserves good vision).
Omega-3 fatty acids may decrease triglycerides, lower blood pressure, reduce blood clotting, decrease stroke and heart failure risk and reduce irregular heartbeats.

Also,funny you should mention salmon as fish to avoid since it has one of the highest percentages of omega-3 fatty acids among fish (>500 mg in 150 gr).

This is a link to the study of the Friedrich Schiller University in Jena,Germany that shows the health benefits of regular fish consumption:

http://www.uni-jena.de/en/News/PM130305_Omega3_en.html

and another one from University of Pittsburgh Schools of the Health Sciences:

http://www.upmc.com/media/NewsReleases/2014/Pages/pitt-study-fish-boots-brain-health.aspx

[Gocka]

They are not expensive the grinders. In MK they sell hand grinders that work just fine.

Thanks for the websites. I searched them but no luck only 2 recipes and I've already found them before using google.mk

I think in Eastern MK they use the Bosnian style with Beef and Lamb, in the West I always remember them being with pork or beef and pork.

I am on lunch now and I just had some pitulici

I guess food is like Nokia - connecting people.

We do love to eat don't we?


You lucky bastard,having your own grinder at home making your own kebapi meat mix ,a dream of every carnivore in the world .
From my experience,the base of the kebapi/burger meat mix is beef.Some butcher shops also include pork or lamb in limited amounts,depends.
As far as recipies are conserned,here are a few Macedonian food sites that can help:

http://www.mojatakujna.mk/

http://moirecepti.mk/

http://www.hranaivino.tv/MK/

http://365.com.mk/kujna

All I see above is "bla bla rice and beans Mexican style, bla bla chicken Marsala with mashed potatoes, bla bla home made pizza, pork chops with fries, pasta, salmon and rice, tavche gravche. bla bla bla bla bla a salad, either cabbage carrots and cauliflower, lettuce and carrot, tomato and cucumber, bla bla bread bla bla meat or fish bla bla tortilla with rice".
I started to haluscinate already...

[DraganOfStip]

They are not expensive the grinders. In MK they sell hand grinders that work just fine.

Thanks for the websites. I searched them but no luck only 2 recipes and I've already found them before using google.mk

I think in Eastern MK they use the Bosnian style with Beef and Lamb, in the West I always remember them being with pork or beef and pork.

I am on lunch now and I just had some pitulici

Well,there's a difference between a grinder for nuts,for tomato/pepers (when we make ajvar) and for meat.
The meat ones are usually bigger and more expensive and also if you buy a hand one,it will only cause you more trouble as you would constantly need to return back the ungrinded bits.

[Gocka]

Mislam deka poveke od edno magare ke cojsa...

Kaj gledas magarina more, ja gleda samo edno magare, i masala masala e storeno.

[Philosopher]

I don't know where you got all this info from,but I can tell you you're mistaken.
I mean,I've also heard that some fish (especially tuna I think) have high quantity of mercury in them which is bad for pregnant women and their fetus,but saying fish in general is the worst meat one can eat is an overstatement.

Anything "farm raised" as you say might and might not be bad for people,you're entering the sphere of conspiracy theories now.

Fish are nutritious, providing energy, protein, selenium (anti-cancer mineral), zinc, iodine and vitamins A and D. Fish is also an excellent source of readily available long-chain omega-3 fatty acids, which are well known for their health benefits (helps brain tissue and the retina,thus protecting from Alzheimers,dementia and preserves good vision).
Omega-3 fatty acids may decrease triglycerides, lower blood pressure, reduce blood clotting, decrease stroke and heart failure risk and reduce irregular heartbeats.

Also,funny you should mention salmon as fish to avoid since it has one of the highest percentages of omega-3 fatty acids among fish (>500 mg in 150 gr).

This is a link to the study of the Friedrich Schiller University in Jena,Germany that shows the health benefits of regular fish consumption:

http://www.uni-jena.de/en/News/PM130305_Omega3_en.html

and another one from University of Pittsburgh Schools of the Health Sciences:

http://www.upmc.com/media/NewsReleas...in-health.aspx

Not all parts of the fish are rich in vitamins A and D. Only the liver is rich in Vitamins A and D, and the area around the eye is also rich in Vitamin A.

The best quality Vitamin A is in the form of pro-Vitamin A (carotenoids).

The best quality Vitamin D is in the form of sunlight.

Let me point out the obvious:

1. Fish, like all animal foods, is a dead food.

2. Fish, like all animal foods, has toxins that the animal absorbs from his environment, diet, and the suffering the animal endures when it is hunted and killed. In addition, all animal foods have hormones.

3. The vitamins, minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids found in fish and other animal foods are not inherent to the animal. The animal gets it either by eating vegetation or other animal foods. The ultimate source is vegetation. So why eat it second or third hand?

4. Fish are only as healthy as the diet they are fed and the environment they live in. Farm raised salmon is not healthy because it is much lower in nutritional value than wild fish, and farm raised fish typically has a much higher mercury content and other heavy metal pollutants than wild fish. The omega 3 content between wild and farmed salmon is very sizable. Fish get their omega 3 from their diet, which is generally sea vegetaion or other fish who eat sea vegetation.

5. The best quality of omega 3 fatty acids is not fish, but dark green leafy vegetables, flaxseeds, walnuts, and other plants and algae.

If you want to eat fish, just understand the risks. Only clean wild seafood should be eaten, preferably from areas free from mercury and radiation.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/07/09/farmed-salmon-dangers.aspx

http://draxe.com/the-dangers-of-farmed-fish/

http://www.peta.org/living/food/toxins-fish/

[DraganOfStip]

Not all parts of the fish are rich in vitamins A and D. Only the liver is rich in Vitamins A and D, and the area around the eye is also rich in Vitamin A.

OK,I'll take your word for it.

The best quality Vitamin A is in the form of pro-Vitamin A (carotenoids).

I never said fish had the best quality vitamin A,only that they have vitamin A.

The best quality Vitamin D is in the form of sunlight.

Well what are we waiting for then,grab a knife and fork and let's eat some sun rays .
No,really,salmon has by far the most vitamin D of any food.
Half a fillet of sockeye salmon has more than 1,400 iu of Vitamin D — more than twice as much as most people need in a day.
Here's a list of top 10 foods rich in vitamin D.As you can see,the top 3 places are all fish:
1.Salmon
2.Tuna
3.Sole or Flounder
4.Milk
5.Cereal
6.Pork
7.Eggs
8.Mushrooms
9.Beef liver
10.Ricotta cheese

Let me point out the obvious:

1. Fish, like all animal foods, is a dead food.

Would you prefer a living chicken wing jumping in your plate?
Sorry,you're vegetarian,let me rephrase that.
Aren't fruits and vegetables dead after you've picked them from the garden?
Because in order for them to be "live food" you'd have to eat them while they're still on the trees/in the ground,right?

2. Fish, like all animal foods, has toxins that the animal absorbs from his environment, diet, and the suffering the animal endures when it is hunted and killed. In addition, all animal foods have hormones.

If we limit ourselves in eating only something without toxins,radiation,etc etc we would end up starving to death.
Animals aren't the only ones that have bad ingredients in their bodies,almost everything on Earth has.Whatever we eat does,in variable quantities.

3. The vitamins, minerals, amino acids, essential fatty acids found in fish and other animal foods are not inherent to the animal. The animal gets it either by eating vegetation or other animal foods. The ultimate source is vegetation. So why eat it second or third hand?

That's the way you see it and you're entitled to an opinion.

4. Fish are only as healthy as the diet they are fed and the environment they live in. Farm raised salmon is not healthy because it is much lower in nutritional value than wild fish, and farm raised fish typically has a much higher mercury content and other heavy metal pollutants than wild fish. The omega 3 content between wild and farmed salmon is very sizable. Fish get their omega 3 from their diet, which is generally sea vegetaion or other fish who eat sea vegetation.

In the western world that might be the case,I'm not disputing it.
Here in Macedonia the fish farms are growing fish according to highest standards and nothing like the links you posted,so I doubt they're that bad to eat (I know this since my father too had a fish farm once and gathered info regarding feeding,reproduction etc from other fish farms so I have personally seen the conditions they grow in).
Bottom line,you can also take your fishing rod and go to your local stream/river/pond/artificial lake/sea (if you live on the shore) and hunt your own not-farm-grown healthy piece of food.It's great fun too.

5. The best quality of omega 3 fatty acids is not fish, but dark green leafy vegetables, flaxseeds, walnuts, and other plants and algae.

I'm not disputing that either,however that's not a reason why a person should deprive himself from a nice tasty piece of fish fillet every now and then.It won't kill you.

[Phoenix]

@ Phoenix

Not all white products are bad. White beans are good, virgin coconut butter is good, et al.

Ideally, however, the deeper the color, the wider the shades of colors, the healthier.

So instead of just buying orange carrots, purchase purple carrots.

When I said to avoid the "Whites"... I was referring to the heavily processed foods, like white bread, white rice, white sugar, white flour products etc...I wasn't referring to fruit, vegetables or legumes...

BTW...are you a paleo convert by any chance?

[Phoenix]

Well based on some research i have found there are two basic styles. Beef and lamb, and Beef and Pork. Its hard to find good lamb here because Americans don't eat it, in fact in the US they don't distinguish between lamb (young) and mutton (grown). So it all says lamb but is usually mutton which is too strong and stinks.

So far my favorite mix was as follows.

52% Ground beef, which is made with a beef cut like a top round. this has 8% fat roughly, and I want the total fat of the beef to be 25% so the rest is beef fat (suet). You can also buy straight 75% lean ground beef.

48% Pork, made from a fattier pork like boneless rib ends at about 12 % fat. This is ground and then brought up to about 30% fat with pig fat (lard).

So in case people don't understand the percentages that means if I have a mix of 1000 grams ground meat. 520g will be beef and beef fat, 480g will be pork and pork fat. Of the 520g a 130g will be fat. The meat it itself will contribute fat. It comes out to be roughly 430g of beef with 100g of fat added to make the meat 25% fat. Then the pork is 480g of which 145 need to be fat. This ends up being 380g of pork with 100g of pork fat.

Then spices are a % of the total weight of meat. so at 1000g of meat mix you need

3% salt 30g
0.50% black pepper 5g
.50% chili 5g (mild)
.50% paprika 5g (mild)
.25 crushed red pepper (spicy)
2 spoons parsley
1% garlic 10g
1% onion 10g
6% sour cream (kajmak)
1 spoon olive oil

The key is that they need to be grilled at very high temps over flames. They need to char quickly on the outside so they don't lose fat. They need to be cooked just long enough for the inside to be cooked and not a second longer. this is the part I find most difficult. But they taste like heaven.

Interesting Gocka, you've gone to some trouble to play around with the mix of ingredients.
I must say, I've never seen sour cream added to them before?

[Vangelovski]

Interesting Gocka, you've gone to some trouble to play around with the mix of ingredients.
I must say, I've never seen sour cream added to them before?

Gocka's got too much time on his hands. Get a job Gocka

[Philosopher]

BTW...are you a paleo convert by any chance?

No.

Are you?

[Gocka]

Gocka's got too much time on his hands. Get a job Gocka

Sometimes I wonder why I have no free time, then I realize its because I spent all of it on some random obsession.

One time it was pizza. It started with buying pizza dough and using canned sauce and shredded mozzarella. I kid you not a few months later I was making dough from scratch with imported Italian flour, I grew my own tomatoes to make sauce from, I made mozzarella from fresh milk, bought a pizza stone, it only ended when my wife had to intervene and stop me from building a brick oven in the yard because the oven wasn't "hot enough".

Pretty soon ill be keeping livestock to kjebapi.

[Phoenix]

Sometimes I wonder why I have no free time, then I realize its because I spent all of it on some random obsession.

One time it was pizza. It started with buying pizza dough and using canned sauce and shredded mozzarella. I kid you not a few months later I was making dough from scratch with imported Italian flour, I grew my own tomatoes to make sauce from, I made mozzarella from fresh milk, bought a pizza stone, it only ended when my wife had to intervene and stop me from building a brick oven in the yard because the oven wasn't "hot enough".

Pretty soon ill be keeping livestock to kjebapi.

Gocka, you clearly have a problem...lol