I am Macedonian

[macorules94]

YouTube - I am Macedonian

[Diabolical]

Microsoft Sam is Macedonian!

Good video. It raises some good points.

why split what is yours?

Why indeed!

[Risto the Great]

Ummm, Microsoft Samuil please.


... shame of Europe indeed.

[Blue Juice]

War is a tragedy.
Every country has had to fight to be free especially in the Balkans.

[Rogi]

For the record, The Republic of Macedonia became independent without war. As did Montenegro.

On another note, did the Greeks really fight for their freedom, or did the Great Powers do it for them?


Interesting that you say 'war is a tragedy' and then following that with the hypocrisy of downplaying and trivialising the consequences and tragedies of war.

[Blue Juice]

Yes the Greeks did fight for their freedom on numerous occasions.
War is a tragedy on both sides. However the Greeks did manage to WIN their freedom.

The RoM was fortunate to receive independence on a platter from the Yugos. On the other hand if it did go to war and IF it won (unlikely), this would have galvanized its population more than what it is at the moment (Albanians, Muslims etc).

Thats the difference between getting a freebie and fighting for your freedom.

[King Makedon]

Oh yes, and it makes also a difference if you want to go to hell or in heaven. right?

[Risto the Great]

War is a tragedy on both sides. However the Greeks did manage to WIN their freedom.

The Battle of Navarino comes to mind when you talk of winning.

Sorry for Wikipedia ... but feel free to clarify anything ... like what colour the Greek underwear was for the preceding 2 years.

The context of the Battle of Navarino was the Greek War of Independence. This had begun in 1821 as an uprising by Greek nationalists against the Ottoman Empire, which had ruled Greece for over three centuries.

By 1827, the Greek rebellion seemed close to failure. In 1825, Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II (ruled 1808-39) had succeeded in breaking the stalemate that the war had reached. He persuaded his powerful wali (viceroy) of Egypt, Muhammad Ali Pasha (ruled 1805-49), who was technically his vassal but in practice semi-independent, to deploy his Western-trained and equipped army and navy against the Greeks. In return, the Sultan promised to grant the rebel heartland, the Peloponnese, as a hereditary fief to Ali's son, Ibrahim. In February 1825, Ibrahim led an expeditionary force of 16,000 into the Peloponnese, and soon overran its western part; he failed, however, to take the eastern section, where the rebel government was based (at Nafplion). Ibrahim's forces then moved onto the Greek mainland, capturing the pivotal strongholds of the Acropolis of Athens and, in April 1826, despite a heroic Greek defence, Messolonghi, which controlled the entrance to the Gulf of Corinth.[1] In response to Greek guerrilla attacks on his forces in the Peloponnese, Ibrahim launched a campaign of deporting civilians to slavery in Egypt and a scorched earth policy which threatened the population with starvation. He also brought in Arab settlers, allegedly aiming ultimately to replace the indigenous population.

The Greek rebels, whose motto was ελευθερία ή θάνατος (eleftheria i thanatos: "freedom or death"), remained defiant, appointing experienced philhellenic British and French officers to command their forces: Maj Sir Richard Church (C-in-C) and Col C. Fabvier (land); Adm Lord Thomas Cochrane (C-in-C) and Capt F.A. Hastings (sea).[2] In May 1827 the Greeks declared an independent Greek State (today known as the First Hellenic Republic). But the Republic's land and sea forces were far inferior to those of the Ottomans and Egyptians: in 1827, Greek regular troops numbered less than 5,000, compared to 25,000 Ottomans in central Greece and 15,000 Ottomans/Egyptians in the Peloponnese. Also, the Greek government was virtually bankrupt. Many of the key fortresses on what little territory it controlled were in Ottoman hands. It seemed only a matter of time before the Greeks were forced to capitulate.

At this critical juncture, the Greek cause was rescued by the decision of three European great powers, Great Britain, France and Russia, to intervene jointly in the conflict.

[Blue Juice]

So who deserves their freedom more?
A nation that fights for their freedom or one that accepts the handout.

[Risto the Great]

one that accepts the handout.

Hmmm, why be so hard on Greece?
Clearly the notion of Greece's existence was largely based on perceived usefulness to the Great Powers. Or do you think the Great Powers helped because they were nice?

[Blue Juice]

The Great powers obviously valued the Hellenic ideals.
Being acknowledged by academia as the cradle of western civilization, Hellas deservedly had the support from appreciative and like minded nations.

[Risto the Great]

Yeah, that is what they all said.









.... until they got there.

[Coolski]

Blue Vein it seems to be a common misconception that Greece 'won' its independence on its own. Let us not forget that at the time the existence of a christian nation with a german ruler was perhaps in the interests of several major powers, to reduce Ottoman influence in the strategic region. Perhaps the independence and creation of modern Greece was not due to the pure efforts of the christian Albanian fighters, but also the absolute backing of Russia, UK, France, Germany etc.

Compare this to Macedonia's developments, where we fought for freedom from the Turks with no support from our idiot neighbours (obviously) but also a lack of support from major powers. There was nobody on our side except us. Not quite a handout eh?

Then check out the goings on of WWII and the partizan movements which Macedonians fought for. This was the first stepping stone to decentralisation of power from the then-royalist Yugoslavia and subsequently Macedonia's smooth, peaceful exit from Yugoslavia 50 years later.

If you want to look at handouts with relation to your accusations, given that you're greek, I would recommend nothing more than delving into the track record of your own people. You see, Greeks always accuse people and nations of that which they have done in an attempt to take the heat off their many shortcommings. Greece has turned from being europe's spoilt child to more of a delinquent old beggar with his hat in his hands, constantly harassing people to help him out of his personal problems.

So in your answer to who deserves freedom more? The answer is obvious. The nation which fights for their freedom. That's Macedonia.

[Coolski]

yeah, that is what they all said.









.... Until they got there.

oh snap! :d

[Blue Juice]

Coolski,
Didn't your people get help from the Bulgarian army during your failed Ilinden campaign?