For a love almost as old as the sun!

[Soldier of Macedon]

I will also add that your childish Nippon-Balkan suggestions and the like do damage to the good work you have done and researched in the past with regard to your DNA studies. You seem to have underwent some sort of change in your life recently which has prompted you to behave unlike you did in the past.

[Philosopher]

Your views are extremist, you can't seem to grasp the concept of logic and you don't understand the historical circumstances. Your above example is completely irrelevant, the DNA similarities shared between Slavs on both sides of the river Danube far outweight that between the Balkan Slavs and Japanese people. Your evidently childish attempt at a rebuttal is at least insightful where it concerns your actual knowledge and rational thinking about this topic. But of course feel free to prove me wrong, we both agree that some Russians can pass for Balkanites easily, can you show me how many Japanese people would pass as Balkanites? This will at least lend some weight to your argument, I am looking forward to seeing how the natives of Nagasaki could pass as Bitolchani.

Which post? Show me where I have proposed a 'concrete connection' in the manner you are suggesting? Or am I going to have to ask you the same question again in my follow up reply?

Yes you are, but when you claim that I have suggested something which I have not, because of your own inaccurate perceptions and assumptions, I will be there to correct it.

Are you feeling ok mate? Are you Greek?

You're missing logic and historical truth. Go and pick up a book about Thracians and Illyrians and educate yourself a little, there is plenty of information regarding these peoples on the threads in this forum, you're driving your argument blindly, basing everything on (a narrow view of) DNA evidence and nothing on historical reality and logic. These people were recorded thousands of years ago in the places which I speak of, and along comes Philosovski and his internet DNA studies to 'refute' everything because Japanese and Macedonian people may "share some similarities" also.

The problem is that you don't understand history and the way it unfolded, therefore you cannot understand what I am writing, that at least makes sense. You have your facts jumbled, periods mixed up, opinions that you have not corroborated, etc.

In fact, you haven't seemed to corroborate anything at all, nor have you come out to make clear statements on what it is that you actually believe. I think your arm-chair comments are done, you should state your opinion now and provide all of the corroboration that you seek from others to support your view. Can you handle that? Or is the arm-chair too comfortable? Let me know if you need help, I can assist you.

You must be losing it. Show me the evidence that speaks of a connection in DNA between peoples on both sides of the Danube? In particular, show me evidence that undergirds your claim that Russians, because of their facial similarities, have a connection to Macedonians?

I find it funny that you are making this claim, since it doesn't exist. There is more similarity between Macedonians and Syrians than Macedonians and Russians. Russians have more of connection to the Norwegian people than southern Balkans people, which means Russians and Macedonians are two different ethnic people.

Again, the concrete connection is based on your assumption that there is a biological, DNA, link between Russians and Macedonians, which you claim exists. This, in my opinion, is a scientific claim, and therefore, a concrete, tangible connection. Any idiot, other than yourself, can understand this.

Japanese people can't pass for Balkans in appearance. But in DNA terms, Japanese people have a link to Macedonians--at least a link in the terms you are using. I hate to tell you Soldier. But similar appearance is not a scientific argument. You would be laughed at by anyone who has a brain.

Again, I challenge you to show me how the R1a, E3b1, J2e, and other haplogroups establish an ethnic link between Russians and Macedonians. And do not use pseudo arguments "they look a like." Don't make me laugh.

In your infinite stupidity, you then write "Are you feeling ok mate? Are you Greek?"

How Greeks on the Forum, including Spartan, are not offended by your sorry ass I will never understand. The implication of your statements is that Greeks are not normal human beings; that they are irrational beasts. Face it, toy soldier, the reality you endeavor to portray is a joke.

You're right; I don't understand history. I'm working on my Ph.D and have studied history intensely but I suppose I need to be further educated by Soldier, an internet historian. What is your education background, toy soldier?

You did not answer my questions from the previous post. You cannot have it both ways. Since the narrow DNA evidence I use clearly proves NO connection between Polish, Russian, and Ukrainian with those of Macedonia, you must resort to avoiding my questions.

Frankly, I've grown tired of your contradictory and illogical posts. Your inability to grasp logic is amusing me...in fact, I can't stop laughing when I read your posts.

[Philosopher]

Philospher, do you see racial or ethnic kinship between the French and Italians?
What do we really know about Proto languages?
If many of our languages stem from Indo-European, surely the languages began a process of differentiation many many years ago ... but started from a similar point or linguistic kinship at some time.

Call me a pan slavist if you will but, given half of Europe still speaks a slavic language, I believe we are talking about a very old language of Europe that did not appear out of thin air. Particularly bearing in mind that we do not read about conquests of the same magnitude as the ancient Romans etc.

Risto,

Romanians and Italians both share a Romance or Italic language. Romanians, however, are much closer to Balkans people in DNA haplogroups. What does this prove?

The French speak an Italic language. What does this prove? Algerians, a berber people, speak Arabic, and yet are in no way similar to Saudis. What does this prove?

Southern Slavic people are different than northern Slavic people in DNA haplogroups. This is because they are two different peoples. They share the Slavic language--but this doesn't prove anything except that the language migrated from the South to the North.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Japanese people have a link to Macedonians

Are you claiming that the DNA similarities between Macedonians and Russians are on par with the similarities between Macedonians and Japanese? Show me the evidence of this fantastic find!

Again, the concrete connection is based on your assumption that there is a biological, DNA, link between Russians and Macedonians, which you claim exists. This, in my opinion, is a scientific claim, and therefore, a concrete, tangible connection. Any idiot, other than yourself, can understand this.

You sound like these common cyclic idiots who go in circles with the same argument, twisting words each time to perpetuate the stupidity of their statements. I stated that Illyrians and Thracians have historically lived on both sides of the Danube river, A FACT THAT ANY HISTORY BOOK WILL CORROBORATE, something that any idiot, apart from yourself, seems to understand. Show me your Japanese Balkanites, I am still waiting for YOU to corroborate your own stupidity.

Japanese people can't pass for Balkans in appearance.

No shit Sherlock. Thus corroborating your previous suggestion as pathetic, at the very least.

I hate to tell you Soldier. But similar appearance is not a scientific argument. You would be laughed at by anyone who has a brain.

Yeah, I guess I can see your point, I mean, hey, if there was me, another Macedonian of similar appearance to me, and an African guy, anybody with a brain would have to assume me for being of native Somali blood, for sure, I can see that happening....in the minds of people who seem to be in absence of a brain, much like yourself it would seem.

In your infinite stupidity, you then write "Are you feeling ok mate? Are you Greek?"

How Greeks on the Forum, including Spartan, are not offended by your sorry ass I will never understand. The implication of your statements is that Greeks are not normal human beings; that they are irrational beasts. Face it, toy soldier, the reality you endeavor to portray is a joke.

In your haste and idiocy, you have failed to catch the point or read what I had written to you in a previous post, 'suggesting' your behaviour was beginning to sound as if you were some internet Greek delude. I asked you if you were OK because it seems you are becoming confused and talking jibberish, I guess you ran out of religious passages to cite. I asked you if you were Greek because you began giving me the whole tough guy "what are you gonna do, ban me, bla, bla" bullshit, like many Greek delude losers have done and continue to do so. Get the key words there, delude and loser, not Greek, some Macedonians can be bigger dickheads than Greeks, you appear to be a shining example.

So please, spare us your pathetic effort at "rounding the Greek troops" to rally behind you, as if they can't make up their own minds for themselves about who is really the dimwit here in this conversation. And such terminology, "not normal human beings" and "irrational beasts", how exactly did you interpret that? Were you reading the Old Testament at the time? How about now, can you see dragons and wild beasts flying around?

You're right; I don't understand history.

Acknowledge it and move on, no need to show me your muscles, people can claim anything over the internet mr Ph.D, but even if you really are in schooling, you and/or your teachers have done a poor job, what a waste of money you have been for your parents, za sram.

Frankly, I've grown tired of your contradictory and illogical posts. Your inability to grasp logic is amusing me...in fact, I can't stop laughing when I read your posts.

Only idiots grasping at straws make such statements, you will continue to read my responses and the only 'laughter' you will conjure is in the worthless words of your written posts, long after you have read it the first time.

[Philosopher]

Are you claiming that the DNA similarities between Macedonians and Russians are on par with the similarities between Macedonians and Japanese? Show me the evidence of this fantastic find!

You sound like these common cyclic idiots who go in circles with the same argument, twisting words each time to perpetuate the stupidity of their statements. I stated that Illyrians and Thracians have historically lived on both sides of the Danube river, A FACT THAT ANY HISTORY BOOK WILL CORROBORATE, something that any idiot, apart from yourself, seems to understand. Show me your Japanese Balkanites, I am still waiting for YOU to corroborate your own stupidity.

No shit Sherlock. Thus corroborating your previous suggestion as pathetic, at the very least.

Yeah, I guess I can see your point, I mean, hey, if there was me, another Macedonian of similar appearance to me, and an African guy, anybody with a brain would have to assume me for being of native Somali blood, for sure, I can see that happening....in the minds of people who seem to be in absence of a brain, much like yourself it would seem.

In your haste and idiocy, you have failed to catch the point or read what I had written to you in a previous post, 'suggesting' your behaviour was beginning to sound as if you were some internet Greek delude. I asked you if you were OK because it seems you are becoming confused and talking jibberish, I guess you ran out of religious passages to cite. I asked you if you were Greek because you began giving me the whole tough guy "what are you gonna do, ban me, bla, bla" bullshit, like many Greek delude losers have done and continue to do so. Get the key words there, delude and loser, not Greek, some Macedonians can be bigger dickheads than Greeks, you appear to be a shining example.

So please, spare us your pathetic effort at "rounding the Greek troops" to rally behind you, as if they can't make up their own minds for themselves about who is really the dimwit here in this conversation. And such terminology, "not normal human beings" and "irrational beasts", how exactly did you interpret that? Were you reading the Old Testament at the time? How about now, can you see dragons and wild beasts flying around?

Acknowledge it and move on, no need to show me your muscles, people can claim anything over the internet mr Ph.D, but even if you really are in schooling, you and/or your teachers have done a poor job, what a waste of money you have been for your parents, za sram.

Only idiots grasping at straws make such statements, you will continue to read my responses and the only 'laughter' you will conjure is in the worthless words of your written posts, long after you have read it the first time.

This is the last time (maybe ever) I wish to converse with you on this post and perhaps others as well. I'm tired of your silly posts.

No you idiot. I am not claiming that the Japanese DNA is on par with the Macedonian in a sense equal to that of the Russian. You have a problem with details, Solider. Notice I wrote "Japanese people can't pass for Balkans in appearance. But in DNA terms, Japanese people have a link to Macedonians--at least a link in the terms you are using..."

The key phrase here is "at least a link in the terms you are using."
For the last time, you suggested in your post that Russians, because some of them can pass for Balkans people, have a DNA connection to Macedonians. I countered by asking you to provide me evidence in DNA R1a, E3b1, and J2e that buttresses your assertion. You gave me none.
My point is that Russians only have a connection to Macedonians in a broad human sense--meaning, all human beings are connected in DNA since we all descend from a single mother. So of course, in a broad sense, Russians will be similar to Macedonians, as will Africans, and the rest of the world. My point about "at least a link in the terms you are using," means that by this scenario of yours, the Japanese also have a connection to Macedonians--in a broad, general sense.

If we go into particulars, however, you will discover that Russians have no connection to Macedonians in a close ethnic sense; Greeks, Syrians, Cretans, Serbians, and Bulgarians, however, do. Russians are nowhere close.

You then wrote " I stated that Illyrians and Thracians have historically lived on both sides of the Danube river, A FACT THAT ANY HISTORY BOOK WILL CORROBORATE, something that any idiot, apart from yourself, seems to understand. Show me your Japanese Balkanites, I am still waiting for YOU to corroborate your own stupidity."

I never said your statement is wrong or right, since it is irrelevant you moron. My question to you was were the Thracians and Illyrians originally from the south of the Danube or the north? You never answered me.

My point is this: if they were from the south, then they must have spread to the north at some point. Before they spread to the north, the people in that region must have been an alien people, since the language spread from the south to the north. If they were from the north, they must spread to the south. Unless you are contending that they lived on both sides at the exact same time in history. Either way, it doesn't explain why there is a huge difference in all available scientific data that evinces no connection between those of the north with those of the south?

So the Thracians and the Illyrians, both proto Slavs, something which few historians would even concede, lived on both sides of the Danube and this proves that the Russians and Macedonians have an ethnic connection?

What is your education level--why is it that you refuse to answer any of my questions?

And no, I did not misunderstand your comment about the Greek thing. And no, I am not crying for a rallying call among Greeks. I don't need support to refute you--I have eaten people like you in my undergraduate days.

You are a lightweight.

[Risto the Great]

Risto,

Romanians and Italians both share a Romance or Italic language. Romanians, however, are much closer to Balkans people in DNA haplogroups. What does this prove?

The French speak an Italic language. What does this prove? Algerians, a berber people, speak Arabic, and yet are in no way similar to Saudis. What does this prove?

Southern Slavic people are different than northern Slavic people in DNA haplogroups. This is because they are two different peoples. They share the Slavic language--but this doesn't prove anything except that the language migrated from the South to the North.

I was just curious to see if you regarded the French and Italians as kin. They are obviously geographically close to each other. And the language differences are tolerable/workable. I was merely trying to determine how far you would go in defining "kinship". I would then use it to figure out what is an acceptable level of commonality before you ascribe kinship to races across the Danube.

I want to believe the language migrated from the South to the North. But often wonder aloud whether it is appropriate to rely on modern DNA tests without looking closely at (non-existent) ancient DNA tests.

Within 80 years, Northern Greece has been infested with Arabic/Turkic DNA. One wonders what has happened over 2000 years. Can we really glean that much from the DNA tests?

[Soldier of Macedon]

This is the last time (maybe ever) I wish to converse with you on this post and perhaps others as well.

If I use this emoticon, am I going to hell?

I am not claiming that the Japanese DNA is on par with the Macedonian in a sense equal to that of the Russian.

Yes you are, don't try to crawl your way out of this now, it's too late for that.

For the last time, you suggested in your post that Russians, because some of them can pass for Balkans people, have a DNA connection to Macedonians.

Aren't you tired of manipulating the words of others yet? This is how it unfolded. You wrote:

...........the balkan states south of the Danube, to wit, Macedonia, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, and Greece, share no similarities in phyisical characteristics and, more importantly, in DNA haplogroup studies with the people north of the Danube.

I responded with the following:

Sharing 'no' similarities at all is a bit of a stretch, some of these peoples are located on both sides of the river, for example, Croats, Serbs and Bulgars. Furthermore, I have met several Russians that could pass as Balkanites quite easily, and several Balkanites that would have no trouble fitting in Kiev or Moscow, I understand that these may be the exceptions and not the norm, but some DNA similarities would have to exist, to one degree or another.

Are you beginning to regain your memory yet? Let's keep going...You said:

What does "some DNA similarity have to exist" prove? I'm sure there is some similarity between Macedonians and Japanese people. What does this prove--that Japanese and Macedonians are kins people?

Japanese and Macedonian people "also" share similarities - That was your response to my suggestion that there exists at least SOME similarities in DNA between the south and north Slavs. You have clearly tried to dismiss my suggestion with your Japanese 'parallel', it was a childish and pathetic thing to do, and you should have know that I will mop the floor with you after such a stupid statement.

You have a problem with details, Solider.

No, it would seem that you do, Philos.

My question to you was were the Thracians and Illyrians originally from the south of the Danube or the north? You never answered me.

That was one question after the trail full of lies that you left behind you, which I purposely ignored because you are not worth that sort of effort any longer. And the following (and yet another) LIE of an assertion from yourself, is why:

So the Thracians and the Illyrians, both proto Slavs, something which few historians would even concede, lived on both sides of the Danube and this proves that the Russians and Macedonians have an ethnic connection?

WHERE (and for the Medical world, more importantly, HOW) IN YOUR LOOPY MIND HAVE YOU CONJURED THIS MANIPULATED PERCEPTION, YOU DEMENTED LIAR?

You are the lightweight, son, to me you are nothing but a little schoolboy having a bitch, a little mochko, kicking up a stink after his argument ran out of credibility, relevance and common sense about 10 posts ago, trying to cover it up by telling us all that you are some apparent Ph.D, like anybody believes that a) you are and/or b) the good money spent on something so stupid. Pack up your books mate, you've failed on sheer stupidity. On your way out, pick up the following complimentary T-shirt So that whoever is standing next to you may display your scholarly legacy with pride.

[Philosopher]

I was just curious to see if you regarded the French and Italians as kin. They are obviously geographically close to each other. And the language differences are tolerable/workable. I was merely trying to determine how far you would go in defining "kinship". I would then use it to figure out what is an acceptable level of commonality before you ascribe kinship to races across the Danube.

I want to believe the language migrated from the South to the North. But often wonder aloud whether it is appropriate to rely on modern DNA tests without looking closely at (non-existent) ancient DNA tests.

Within 80 years, Northern Greece has been infested with Arabic/Turkic DNA. One wonders what has happened over 2000 years. Can we really glean that much from the DNA tests?

You're assuming that because people migrate or immigrate, from one country to another, that the genes did as well. The fact is, however, northern Greeks do not possess the Arabic/Turkic DNA. I have seen no study to indicate this. You are assuming prima facie that because Greeks or Turkish Greeks immigrated from Turkey to Greek Macedonia that these Turk Greeks resemble Turks in DNA. Well, they don't.

Moreover, the beauty of DNA and the beauty of science, is that no matter how many years have passed and no matter how much mixing has occurred, DNA does not disappear.

For example, the National Geographic did a study on the Phoenician genes. In that study, researchers were able to pinpoint successive waves of interpolation or admixture in the DNA. So they identified different strains in the modern coastal people of Lebanon. There is the Phoenician, which resembles those of the white Mediterranean world, and is still found around the Aegean and Sardinia; the Arabic one, from the Arab conquests; the Turkish one, from the Ottoman days, and so forth.

I suggest you do the research on this.

As for the so called "Slavs," I have yet to see one study--not even one--where there is evidence of this. This means that not even in the distant past, is there evidence of a common unity among the "Slavs." There are no dead genes, since they are passed on from generation to another. If there were dead genes, you would have to maintain that a large amount of people all died before passing on their genes. But this would be illogical, since a whole race of people would become extinct.

The people north of the Danube are just too different from the people of the south; what else cold explain that Macedonians, a Slavic speaking people, would have far more commonality with Syrians, an Arab speaking people, then that the people north of the Danube?