In 1953 Greece wanted to transfer 50,000 "Macedonians" to Yugosaliva!

[Amphipolis]

What is really scary for me is the abundance of greek donkeys out there and even those routinely grazing on straw in this forum who are totally oblivious to the absurdity of the shit above...somehow in the vacuum that exists in their skulls, it all makes perfectly good sense...

As I already said, the CIA documents are indeed a little absurd, but this is how information disseminates in Secret Services and is evaluated (later). If you want to see real absurdity, take a look at this (from 1949):

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/31094/45/

The whole scenario is crazy, but read carefully end of Section 2 and Section 3 for a final touch to the masterpiece.



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[Niko777]

Could we possibly post this document on the front page of the Macedoniantruth website, on top of "Macedonian Orthodox Church Property Trust Bill 2010" ?

[Karposh]

As I already said, the CIA documents are indeed a little absurd, but this is how information disseminates in Secret Services and is evaluated (later). If you want to see real absurdity, take a look at this (from 1949):

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/31094/45/

The whole scenario is crazy, but read carefully end of Section 2 and Section 3 for a final touch to the masterpiece.

Why is that so crazy? Plans were definitely afoot during WWII to correct the injustice that was done in 1913. Chento paid with his life for that goal. Every Macedonian knows how the Yugoslav authorities of the time (i.e. Tito & his cronies, which included Macedonian Uncle Toms) double crossed the Macedonian partisans and sent them to the Sremski Front instead of marching onto Solun.

The "cooperation with the Greek and Bulgarian partisans" that the CIA report is talking about in Section 2 refers to the tight connection and cooperation of the Macedonian partisans during the final stages of the war from all parts of Macedonia, including the Aegean and Pirin parts.

There is the famous story that has been circulating among Macedonians right around the world of the Macedonian partisans refusing to fight on the Sremski Front but instead wanting to march onto Solun to fight for a United Macedonia. The reasoning was: "If we must die fighting then we want to die fighting for a united and independent Macedonia." At the time, the combined Macedonian forces included about 120,000 men at arms. This is not an insignificant number. It included 70,000 partisans from Vardar Macedonia; 30,000 - 40,000 from Aegean Macedonia and; 10,000 - 15,000 from Pirin Macedonia.

The demand was so strong that it was imperative for Tito to do something about it. So he ordered his cronies to make empty promises: "You help us defeat the fascists at the Sremski Front and then, with the help of the united forces of our brotherly Yugoslav nations, we will unite Macedonia."

The aftermath of this very recent episode of Macedonian history was very different to the empty promises that were fed to the Macedonian partisans. Instead of uniting Macedonia, on the 7th January 1945, the Yugoslavs conducted mass-executions of the ring leaders for a United Macedonia at Skopsko Kale and in Shtip. And, although Chento survived the initial purge, he was to suffer throughout his short-lived life for his constant calls for a United Macedonia, which were labelled as "outbursts of separatism and anti-Yugoslav politics."

[Dejan]

As I already said, the CIA documents are indeed a little absurd, but this is how information disseminates in Secret Services and is evaluated (later). If you want to see real absurdity, take a look at this (from 1949):

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/31094/45/

The whole scenario is crazy, but read carefully end of Section 2 and Section 3 for a final touch to the masterpiece.



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Majmun, this is a Macedonian forum. Articles like these should be promoted in order to educate those Macedonians who don't know the history.

[Amphipolis]

Could we possibly post this document on the front page of the Macedoniantruth website, on top of "Macedonian Orthodox Church Property Trust Bill 2010" ?

Majmun, this is a Macedonian forum. Articles like these should be promoted in order to educate those Macedonians who don't know the history.

Do you refer to the first (post#1) or second document (post#16)? And how much do you think they differ?

[Karposh]

The only bits of the CIA document that you provided Amphipolis, that I have to agree is nuts, are the bits that talk about some combined Macedonia-Albania country and Soviet inspired plans for a United Macedonia with tank divisions positioned and ready to strike to that end. I doubt very much the USSR was ready to risk another world war over Macedonia, with the last one so fresh in their memory which came at an unimaginable human cost - 25 million lost Russian souls. The WWII partisan call for a United Macedonia was a popular movement by the Macedonian people and not some Soviet/Commintern inspired initiative. The communist backing was coincidental or, perhaps even sympathetic but it wasn't the catalyst for such a calling. As a matter of fact, the evil communist card was played masterfully by the Greeks during the Greek Civil War which was all the west needed to justify the dropping of napalm bombs on the Macedonians.

[Gocka]

None of this is shocking, we all know this. My great grand father was one of the partisans that wanted to march on Solun, and remembered how they were naive to believe the Communist leaders.

It is pretty cool to see a document affirming it though.

[Solun]

My grandfather also told of the execution of Macedonian partisans wanting to march on Solun rather than Srem

[Amphipolis]

None of this is shocking, we all know this. My great grand father was one of the partisans that wanted to march on Solun, and remembered how they were naive to believe the Communist leaders.

It is pretty cool to see a document affirming it though.

My grandfather also told of the execution of Macedonian partisans wanting to march on Solun rather than Srem

Sorry, but I can't really follow. What year or situation are we talking about? What does marching on Solun or Srem mean and who executed who? How is that related or confirming the document?

[Solun]

It is in reference to the following:

In 1944,45 the Yugoslav leadership executed around 1,000 Macedonian partisans in Skopje, Veles, Bitola, Gevgelija, Shtip.. who wanted to fight on the Solun front.


The Macedonian partisans were sent to Srem.

https://inserbia.info/today/2013/04/...-breakthrough/


Surely an honest mistake that the Serbs don't recognise the effort of the Macedonian partisans

[Karposh]

The following is a direct quote from Michael Palairet's second volume of his two-volume history of Macedonia titled "Macedonia - A Voyage through History." In all honesty, I hadn't heard of this author or his work before today when I decided to google "Srem Front" in an effort to shed more light on the current discussion. I am quoting his views here regarding the Srem Front and the Macedonian partisans only as I feel they are worthy of a mention. I am in no way endorsing the rest of his book for the simple reason that I don't know what he has to say about us in that book. I can't be certain, without reading it, that he is not yet another "expert" denying our identity through extensive glossy volumes that discusses the "History of Macedonia." Anyway, here it is:

In late 1944, the Macedonian partizans were organizing for an attack on Salonica, which would probably have succeeded, because the Germans were extricating their forces from Greece, and the British, who had liberated Athens in October, had yet to establish a presence in the communist influenced north of the country. However, despite their commitment to the unification of Macedonia, Tito's communists would not let Macedonian aims take precedence over the broader struggle.
Tito preferred to throw the Macedonian troops into the Srem Front, north of the Sava River, to help expel Germans from northern Yugoslavia. The Srem Front was an optional extra for the partizans. It presented an opportunity for Tito to use the Serbian troops he had now been able to conscript, but the Germans were intent on getting out Yugoslavia as soon as they could, and needed no pushing. Besides that, when attacked , they hit back at the Yugoslavs with superior force. Macedonian expansionists aims in northern Greece would have to be abandoned, for an attack on Salonica could bring the Yugoslavs into conflict with the western allies, who had been promised Greece in Yalta.

So basically, Tito used the Macedonians at the Srem Front for cannon fodder. The Germans were keen to leave anyway and needed no pushing, as the author points out. What is particularly striking is the author's opinion that the Macedonian partisans had a realistic chance of actually taking Solun. Talk about a missed opportunity.

[Amphipolis]

So basically, Tito used the Macedonians at the Srem Front for cannon fodder. The Germans were keen to leave anyway and needed no pushing, as the author points out. What is particularly striking is the author's opinion that the Macedonian partisans had a realistic chance of actually taking Solun. Talk about a missed opportunity.

As far as I know, German withdrawal from Thessaloniki took more than 15 days and was completed in October 30, 1944. Thessaloniki came instantly under the control of the Communist Partisans who were (gasp) under the orders of Great Britain, but not really following them nor clashing with them. So were most of the cities of Macedonia.

Serres was liberated September 14, Florina November 1, Kilkis November 4 etc. Athens was free since October 12.

[Gocka]

ako te zemam vcelo ke pratis ubo.

Sorry, but I can't really follow. What year or situation are we talking about? What does marching on Solun or Srem mean and who executed who? How is that related or confirming the document?

[Phoenix]

ako te zemam vcelo ke pratis ubo.

...lol

Don't worry about our plate smashing friends feigned ignorance...he's a paid agent going about his dirty business of denial...

[Amphipolis]

It is in reference to the following:

In 1944,45 the Yugoslav leadership executed around 1,000 Macedonian partisans in Skopje, Veles, Bitola, Gevgelija, Shtip.. who wanted to fight on the Solun front.

The above quote is from Mina News and I couldn't confirm anything close to this number (1000 executions). Wikipedia (for instance) says 12 officers were shot by Yugoslavia Secret Police. The dates are not clear but this is probably after November 20, 1944.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_in_Yugoslav_Macedonia#Aftermath

Edit: This may be related

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Christmas_(1945)

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