The Rosetta Stone

[George S.]

That's good indigen have you had a look at the lecture notes at the cmhs website.We are all tying to see from the notes whether the demotic has any macedonian words.The whole thing seems to be cococted.We will see & compare how they came to their conclussion.

[rosetta]

RitaC,

As far as I understand your Table at post#146 is not the sound values of Demotic characters but a modern computer font to write in it (i.e. which keypad letters correspond to the Demotic characters).
For sound values you can see the one in the link of my post#96, or here's another one corresponding to Greek alphabet which succeeded the Demotic one



The characters III and /// are usually considered as just 2 vowels (close to Greek he, i or y). According to the mad scientists they mean bogo and gospoda. So their text (and any text) will be full of bogos and gospodas.

Bogo Bogo

[Soldier of Macedon]

Rosetta, as a joker that has been previously banned for some sort of stupidity, I would advise you to stick to the facts, highlight their faults - but not look at this as an opportunity to insult Macedonians, even if they are wrong. It is not appropriate from somebody who harbours racist views against Macedonians.

[Pelister]

Champollian did this already almost 200 years ago.

See below the details of decpihered text.





Champollian's decipher produces a much more coherent result and fully corresponds to the Greek and Hieroglyphic texts on the Rosetta stone.

Further, it has been used to translate other Demotic texts with complete success.

What kind of result do we produce if we apply the mad scientsts' decipherment on the script below?



Im guessing that someone with an excellent grasp of old Macedonian should easily make sense of this using the new decipherment.

Give it a try Pelister. The text is short and shouldn't take more than a few minutes to translate one of the lines.

Which one is more coherent and makes more sense? That is asking alot. I am not familiar with Champillon's attempt to decipher the text, but if he had any sucess with it, we would have heard about it sometime between now and 200 years ago. Identifying patterns and clusters that form words - is not an accurate way to decipher a text unless the initial word formations are spot on. If the sounds given to each symbol, are wrong - the rest of the text ends up being simply babble. Building up an entirely coherent and historically factually accurate translation, on the basis of a few key words and phrases using the Macedonian language - like I said its a billion to one chance of producing an almost complete and coherent decipherment - and I might add one that is factually accurate. This simply could not be done unless all the key elements were in place from the very begginning - and even then there is no guarantee. Logically, I think they have nailed it.

[rosetta]

Pelister,
This is a 12-pages introduction to Egyptian Demotic Literature. As I said it numbers (at the moment) about 15,000 texts varying from short inscriptions (few lines) to extended ones (many pages). They have been translated, studied and analysed within these 200 years.

http://books.google.com/books?id=fq5ViNRi7zoC&pg=PA175&dq=egyptian+demotic+literature&hl=el&ei=HGD1TfTWKtSzhAfU44DZBg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCoQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=egyptian%20demotic%20literature&f=false

[George S.]

Monument of Аncient Macedonian script and langauge Tome Boshevski, Aristotel Tentov 24
C O N C L U S I O N
• Besides the consonant, for the first time we are proposing that the vowels shall be
wired for sound as well; Consequently, we obtain a uniqueness in writing/reading;
• We identify and wire for sound, 27 consonants and 8 vowels;
• By implementing our methodology we identify nouns in singular and in plural form,
in non-defining and in defining form, adjectives in basic and in superlative form, active
and passive form of the same verbs, and masculine and feminine forms of nouns, etc.;
• Our readings are justified with archeological evidence;
• In the three texts on the Rosetta stone the pharaohs communicated with three different
ethnic communities in Egypt , and they used different styles and approaches
according to religion and social status;
•The middle text contains many more details compared with the ancient Danai
text written with the uncial alphabet;
• According to these results we can conclude that the middle text on the Rosetta stone
is written using the script and the language of the Ancient Macedonians who where the
living masters of Egypt in that period;
• We implemented our methodology on the Canopus Decree as well, and were successful
in completely reading the so called demotic text

[George S.]

Basic characteristics of the script used to write the middle text
• There are no punctuation signs as use today;
• Text is written in a continuous sequence of signs, without
spaces between words;
• Hieroglyphic and demotic (middle text) are written and are
read from right to left;
• The script used for writing of the middle text is syllabic, with
a few pictographic symbols used;
• Syllables are exclusively of the consonant-vowel type;
• A procedure for writing isolated consonants is very simple;
• Additional signs are used for writing isolated vowels and
some isolated consonants;
• Besides the use of syllabic signs next to each other,
they are also used on/or over other signs as well, thus
forming ligatures.
Basic characteristics of the script

Monument of Аncient Macedonian script and langauge Tome Boshevski, Aristotel Tentov 5

[Delodephius]

if anyone is interested, here you can download the grammar and learning materials for egyptian demotic:

http://sites.google.com/site/egyptiandemotic/home

plus a dictionary:

http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/pubs/catalog/cdd/

i'm only curious how did boshevski and tentov managed to ignore or oversee the fact that demotic is a well documented and researched language. They constantly claim (and one of them did in our e-mail correspondence) that this is not true and that the egyptologists really know very little about the demotic language. Unfortunately for them reality is quite different. And the reason why so man lay macedonians were persuaded in their arguments is because most people just don't know anything about the ancient egyptian language, not to mention the history of their own language (the two scholars seemed to have been completely ignorant of old slavonic and its grammar).

你好！我叫托马斯。我是从欧洲来得。

[George S.]

SAT can you pleas have a look at their notes is there any glimmer of hope that according to them you can read the text with ancient macedonian alphabet & even present day macedonian.The notes are at the cmhs website.Many thanks.
Ps supposedly in their notes they explain everything??

[Delodephius]

You'll have to give me a link. But I'm 100% certain there is no hope whatsoever. If I can read the text in Egyptian why should it be possible to read it in Macedonian? If anyone wants to find more about what the Ancient Macedonian language was like please check out this thread: http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4965

[George S.]

Here's the linkhttp://www.macedonianhistory.ca/html/rosetta/rosetta.html

just click on the words ancient macedonian language.See what it is & let us know what you thing,maybe we could have a lively discussion??

[Delodephius]

On page 8 titled "Our main assumption" they make the mistake of including the letters J and Ђ in the list of letters that appear similar to Demotic symbols. These letters did not exist before the Late Middle Ages.

J first appears as a separate (not merely a stylistic) letter in the work of Gian Giorgio Trissino (1478–1550) "Trissino's epistle about the letters recently added in the Italian language" in 1524. It was adopted in Serbian Cyrillic by Vuk Karadžić to replace Й (still used in Russian, Ukrainian, Belarusian and Bulgarian) and after WW2 it was introduced in Macedonia together with the new reformed Cyrillic alphabet based on the Serbian one.

Letters Ђ (in Macedonian Ѓ) was first used in Medieval Bosnia and was also adopted by Vuk Karadžić for the modern Serbian Cyrillic.

They used these letters to decipher the sound of the Demotic script based on the letters' similarity, but these letters did not exist in any language in the time period when Rosetta Stone was written, nor did they remain "hidden" and then resurfaced in the Middle Ages. They were invented in the Middle Ages and have no prior history before that. Their history is well documented. On what grounds do the two scholars then base their assumption on?

Furthermore, the sounds of the letters J, Ќ, Ѓ, Њ, Љ, Џ and Ф did not even exist in Old Macedonian (Old Church Slavonic) a thousand years ago, let alone a thousand years before that. Their appearance and evolution in all Slavic languages is well documented. If they're research was indeed in accordance with the scientific knowledge of Macedonian language we should expect that these sounds would not appear in their decipherment of the Demotic text, yet they do. They could argue that perhaps what was known so far about the phonological evolution of Macedonian is wrong, but then they would need to explain the evidence of the documentation. If it was only that. In reality they face a mammoth task of explaining why they ignored the documentation of the Macedonian language of the last 1000 years.

[George S.]

thanks for the feedback so far.Does any demotic words resmble anything macedonian including ancient macedonian or is it totally made up.?Is there anything they can substantiate for their case.

[Delodephius]

Most of the words in their decipherment resemble words in the modern Macedonian vocabulary. But that's all arbitrarily. Though in our correspondence Mr Tentov denied this and said it couldn't be arbitrarily, which I'm sure other supporters will say as well. However this only shows they don't know how languages work, that their logic is not mathematical but grammatical, not something to be understood by technicians and physicists, but by grammarians and linguists.

Demotic is a well researched and documented language. They can do whatever and however much to make the texts sound and look like something Macedonian, it doesn't make it so. Let's do a little experiment: delete all the spaces in the text above, create some cypher-table for every letter and arbitrarily add to them different meanings, and then try to cut the text up so that it would be readable in Macedonian, because that's what they basically did. The text would still be English if you read it properly.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Have they used any similar sound values for the characters as those that deciphered the Demotic script?