Freising Manuscripts - 9th Century Slavonic

[Soldier of Macedon]

I donīt really understand why they have to be of Macedonian origin.............Is it totally impossible for the texts to have been translated from latin directly to the language that was spoken by the people they were intended for? Why go thru Macedonian?

I think you misunderstood me Zrinski. I am not at all implying that the Freising Manuscripts are Macedonian in origin, I wholly agree that they are of the Slovenian tongue intended for Slovenian people.

What I was trying to allude to was the possibility of Macedonian influence in Moravian speech via OCS, not the Freising Manuscripts, which were written around the same time as the first texts appear in OCS letters.

So, if we compare a Freising Manuscript to a contemporary OCS document of the same period (9th century), and then to another Slavonic document from Moravia decades or centuries later, will we find any noticeable differences as a result of OCS influence? I have not carried out such a task yet, but I do think it should make for an interesting comparison.

To get more "scientific" answers you should probably discuss this with Tomaz the Slovak

Yes, that would have been good, but if you recall our friend Slovak decided to leave because apparently, all he could find was illumination and disappointment here, and despite openly admitting that he purposely hid information, manipulated others, he could not see how the two are related.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1391&page=2

Personally, if I purposefully hid information and manipulated others as a rule, I would also find eventual disappointment in whatever forum I am in.

[slovenec zrinski]

I was actually very hesitant to answer your last post because of this misunderstanding from my side. I simply didnīt know what to answer to what I believed was an attempt to....how to say...."steal" this piece of Slovenian (and possibly, Slovakian) history.
I understand now what you mean and I agree that it would be very, very interesting to compare the languages in the way you suggest. I think it would be a fine way of determining the extent of OCS influence in western slavic languages. Probably the only way until we find more texts from that time. (I wonder if there is anything to discover about this in the archives of the Vatican)...
If you have the knowledge and time to do this in the future, it would be very interesting to see the results I am sure
Btw, according to what I have read, or heard, the dialect most influenced by OCS in Slovenia is the Prekmurje dialect (donīt ask me the specifics though;o)) and perhaps it has something to do with the fact that this part of present day Slovenia was part of the Moravian Empire?


I think it is sad that that Tomaz doesnīt post anymore. But perhaps he will return when he is calmer and older and doesnīt feel the need to hide info or make postures

[Soldier of Macedon]

I will try to get around to it Zrinski, I really want to get to the bottom of this. Slovak rejected any significant influence from OCS in Moravian, or limited it to virtually nothing. This may or may not be true, until we compare the texts, we wont know. Do you have any link to the Prekmurje dialect theory?

Hey, by the way, no probs for the misunderstanding at all, perhaps I should have written it a little differently so you don't get the wrong idea. Besides, if I ever tried to claim west Slavonic for OCS then Tomas would be haunting me in my dreams, hehehe. Either way, thanks for getting involved in this discussion, you and I had a falling out a long time ago about something I don't even remember (probably personality clash), but we all learn and improve ourselves as time goes by, I am glad we are on good terms again.

[slovenec zrinski]

About the OCS in prekmurje dialect: That is just something I have heard from "time to time" so to speak. Most recently was in a TV program broadcasted on TVSlovenija about one year ago. (Actually a program about folkmusic from Prekmurje)
I have tried to find something on the net but havenīt so far. (On the job just now so donīt have that much time)
Saw on a site that prekmurjedialect connected to the freising manuscript...will try and find it again when I get home from work.

About the falling out. Water under the brigde etc etc I think that one has to put stuff aside to move forward. That is true in so many aspects of life.

On a side note....the word "beseda" is used in slovenian to this very day (saw in the albanian thread something about that word)

[Soldier of Macedon]

About the OCS in prekmurje dialect: That is just something I have heard from "time to time" so to speak. Most recently was in a TV program broadcasted on TVSlovenija about one year ago. (Actually a program about folkmusic from Prekmurje)
I have tried to find something on the net but havenīt so far. (On the job just now so donīt have that much time)
Saw on a site that prekmurjedialect connected to the freising manuscript...will try and find it again when I get home from work.

I thought I will bring this one back from the dead as the discussion is yet to fully run its course. Zrinski, I found the below on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prekmurian_dialect

I can't post the pic from the novine article up from my PC at the moment, will do so later, but I think it could be used as a comparison to see its proximity to standard Slovene and Friesing Slovene.

[slovenec zrinski]

I agree that this discussion is far from exhausted. What frustrates me the most is that I didnīt learn Slovenian when I was young. Its very frustrating to want to know and to try and compare when you do not have the proper knowledge. I think I have said it before sometime that I have hunches (or what it is called) about the subject and have collected bits and pieces (in my head) thru the years. Bits and pieces that makes me very hesitant on the official history. But unfortunately hunches arenīt scientific enough
Thanks for the interesting link.
I have some texts in a book that is in Prekmurian. I can scan and post if you want (some of it anyway)

[Soldier of Macedon]

Zrinski, that would be great if you can, in the meantime, I will try and get the pic up from the link I just posted, and then we can start running some comparisons, looking forward to it.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I thought I will bring this one back from the dead as the discussion is yet to fully run its course. Zrinski, I found the below on wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prekmurian_dialect

I can't post the pic from the novine article up from my PC at the moment, will do so later, but I think it could be used as a comparison to see its proximity to standard Slovene and Friesing Slovene.

Here it is:

[slovenec zrinski]

Thanks for the pic.

How do I post scans here? Never done that. I tried but maximum size is 19 kb and the scans are over 100kb each...

[Soldier of Macedon]

Upload through imageshack.us, and then select the link which says "forum code" and post it here, the pic should come up automatically.

[slovenec zrinski]

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