Canadian PM Harper Delchev Speech

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  • XRVOL
    Junior Member
    • Jan 2009
    • 84

    #16
    Originally posted by iskra View Post
    Good question. Did he actually attend? No. UMD led people to believe he would attend even though they knew that he wasn't coming.



    Another good question, I am sure volk and xrvol can help here. Has UMD been around for 50 years?
    I can help, iskra. That excerpt was taken from a speech made in February about the United Macedonians Organization of Canada...not UMD.

    Makedonetz, why did you say this was his speech at the UMD Conference?

    Comment

    • iskra
      Junior Member
      • Jun 2010
      • 59

      #17
      Originally posted by XRVOL View Post
      I can help, iskra. That excerpt was taken from a speech made in February about the United Macedonians Organization of Canada...not UMD.

      Makedonetz, why did you say this was his speech at the UMD Conference?
      Thanks XRVOL though when you watch the clip from UMD, even there he mentions the United Macedonian organisation only, not UMD. It could have been a slip of the tongue, but then UMD surely had an obligation to have that fixed before releasing it to the media.

      There is confusion here and that's what happens when one 50 year old organisation named UM, has a 5 year old UMD trying to get a free ride off all the hard work that had been done by UM and others in convincing the Canadian government to recognise Macedonia.

      Comment

      • Soldier of Macedon
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 13670

        #18
        Well said Iskra.
        Originally posted by Volk
        So if you put it in context, what is wrong for a Macedonian Diaspora group awarding someone that played a key role in the recognition of our name by a major country in the world?
        I already gave you my answer.
        If the State gave him this award I would agree
        The Macedonian state doesn't go around claiming to speak on behalf of the Macedonian Diaspora, your friends in the UMD do. Why would it be a problem fo you if it were the state to give him such an award?
        All this does is create further bridges and more allies for our cause.
        No it doesn't, it shows the UMD kissing Harper's ass for being normal and calling us Macedonia and Macedonians. Ne ni e sram da mu davame daroi na site sho ne priznavaat? The name of the UMD suggests they represent the Macedonian Diaspora, that's a problem for me, because I don't agree with their actions.
        Unfortunately you cannot see this.
        Volk, clearly you and I see different things. I am not an UMD apologist.
        Originally posted by XRVOL
        Well said.
        What part exactly? Are you pro UMD also?
        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

        Comment

        • XRVOL
          Junior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 84

          #19
          What do you consider pro UMD?

          This part: "what is wrong for a Macedonian Diaspora group awarding someone that played a key role in the recognition of our name by a major country in the world?".

          There is no significance of UMD's Goce Delcev awards so it is not as if it is the equivalent of the Queen knighting someone. It's just a token award. A little diplomacy never hurt anyone.

          Comment

          • XRVOL
            Junior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 84

            #20
            Originally posted by iskra View Post
            Thanks XRVOL though when you watch the clip from UMD, even there he mentions the United Macedonian organisation only, not UMD. It could have been a slip of the tongue, but then UMD surely had an obligation to have that fixed before releasing it to the media.

            There is confusion here and that's what happens when one 50 year old organisation named UM, has a 5 year old UMD trying to get a free ride off all the hard work that had been done by UM and others in convincing the Canadian government to recognise Macedonia.
            Iskra, Harper is talking about the Macedonian community in Canada in general and the relations between Canada and Macedonia. He is not talking about the United Macedonians Organisation, he is not talking about the UMD. He briefly mentions "United Macedonian", where i assume he missed "Diaspora" on the end of it. Either way, that is irrelevant as his speech has nothing to do with specific organisations.

            So how is UMD getting a free ride off United Macedonians or anyone else?

            Comment

            • Soldier of Macedon
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 13670

              #21
              Originally posted by XRVOL View Post
              What do you consider pro UMD?
              It wasn't a trick question, you know what 'pro' means. Is there a reason why you're evasive about it?
              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

              Comment

              • Piperka
                Junior Member
                • Feb 2010
                • 33

                #22
                Originally posted by Makedonetz View Post
                Risto i found this exerpt of his speech at the UMD conference.
                Mr. Harper did not fail to recognize the significance of the occasion, as highlighted in an excerpt from his speech: Is this what you were asking for

                "For half a century, this Organization has worked to enrich the lives of Canadians of Macedonian descent, uniting your community and keeping alive your proud heritage and traditions. So it is with great pleasure that I offer my congratulations on the occasion of this Organization’s 50th anniversary. Since the early 19th century, Canada has been the home to a vibrant Macedonian Diaspora. Early immigrants left all they knew behind in search of a better life for their children and found both opportunity and prosperity on our shores. And Canada, in turn, has been enriched by the contributions of Macedonian Canadians. As devoted family- and community-conscious neighbours, as enthusiastic participants in the democratic process, as hardworking entrepreneurs, dedicated and accomplished professionals, each and every day, Macedonian Canadians are helping to build a stronger, better country for all of us. Not to mention padding out the front lines of a few of NHL teams in the process! But seriously, ladies and gentlemen, the same values that guide community members here in Canada are also inspiring your friends and loved ones living in Macedonia. Since Macedonia declared its independence in 1991, the country has made great strides in democratic and economic progress. And although there have been, and will yet be, challenges, along the way, Macedonia is already proving itself an important member of the European family. I know that you will all keep a close watch, all of you, on developments in Macedonia, just as you continue to contribute each and every day to building a stronger Canada. One of our great strengths as Canadians is that we learn from our history; we are not enslaved by it. We put old arguments behind us and focus on the challenges and opportunities that lie before us. And I know Macedonian-Canadians, through their hard work and commitment to community, will always be at the forefront of the effort to move this country forward."


                http://macedoniantoronto.blogspot.co...1_archive.html

                That is from the speech he gave when he attended the United Macedonians' annual Goce Delcev banquet/50 year anniversary in February 2009. The United Macedonians are not affiliated with the UMD. They were established in 1959 and are based out of Toronto.

                Here is a video clip of that event.

                YouTube - Stephen Harper Celebrates the United Macedonian's Anniversary

                Comment

                • iskra
                  Junior Member
                  • Jun 2010
                  • 59

                  #23
                  Originally posted by XRVOL View Post
                  Iskra, Harper is talking about the Macedonian community in Canada in general and the relations between Canada and Macedonia. He is not talking about the United Macedonians Organisation, he is not talking about the UMD. He briefly mentions "United Macedonian", where i assume he missed "Diaspora" on the end of it. Either way, that is irrelevant as his speech has nothing to do with specific organisations.

                  So how is UMD getting a free ride off United Macedonians or anyone else?
                  I find this kind of confusion annoying. I live in Sydney, but I have relatives and friends in Toronto who told me that UMD encouraged everyone to think that Harper would attend their dinner, even though they knew he wasn't coming.

                  UMD for their own benefit were trying to cash in on the fact that other Canadian organisations like UM had won Harper over to the Macedonian cause. They essentially are a Washington based American organisation that has gone to Toronto to give the Canadian prime minister an award. Did they even consult with UM and the other Canadian organisations that won Harper over? I know they did not.

                  XRVOL, you are not being accurate when you say the speech wasn't about specific organisations. There was more than one aspect to it. This is a public forum and everyone can view the clip, you should be more careful.

                  Harper's second sentence in the UMD clip is "and welcome to all attendees of the second annual United Macedonian global conference". Not long after that he says "and thank you for honoring me tonight with the Gotse Delchev award". He is talking about an organisation here, that is for sure. Though what is not for sure is which one!

                  As I posted before this may have been a slip of the tongue, but in making that slip Harper spoke the truth in a funny way. Though my point, which you did not answer, was that surely UMD had an obligation to fix that slip (if it was a slip) before releasing it to the media.

                  I will say it again, there is confusion here and that's what happens when one 50 year old organisation named UM, has a 5 year old UMD trying to get a free ride off all the hard work that had been done by UM and others in convincing the Canadian government to recognise Macedonia. The UMD tried for their own benefit, to link themselves to the major success of other organisations, like UM. They also deliberately let people think Harper was coming to the dinner even though they knew he wasn't coming and that is all trying to get a free ride (or a full hall at their dinner) off the hard work of somebody else.
                  Last edited by iskra; 06-25-2010, 11:16 PM.

                  Comment

                  • XRVOL
                    Junior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 84

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                    It wasn't a trick question, you know what 'pro' means. Is there a reason why you're evasive about it?
                    I support positive Macedonian initiatives. I'm not a supporter of a specific organisation(s).

                    Comment

                    • XRVOL
                      Junior Member
                      • Jan 2009
                      • 84

                      #25
                      Originally posted by iskra View Post
                      UMD for their own benefit were trying to cash in on the fact that other Canadian organisations like UM had won Harper over to the Macedonian cause. They essentially are a Washington based American organisation that has gone to Toronto to give the Canadian prime minister an award. Did they even consult with UM and the other Canadian organisations that won Harper over? I know they did not.

                      Why would they have to consult other Macedonian organisations to hold an event in Canada to award the Canadian PM? This doesn't make sense.

                      XRVOL, you are not being accurate when you say the speech wasn't about specific organisations. There was more than one aspect to it. This is a public forum and everyone can view the clip, you should be more careful.

                      Harper's second sentence in the UMD clip is "and welcome to all attendees of the second annual United Macedonian global conference". Not long after that he says "and thank you for honoring me tonight with the Gotse Delchev award". He is talking about an organisation here, that is for sure. Though what is not for sure is which one!

                      I think it is obvious that he is talking about UMD especially when he refers to the Goce Delcev award.

                      As I posted before this may have been a slip of the tongue, but in making that slip Harper spoke the truth in a funny way. Though my point, which you did not answer, was that surely UMD had an obligation to fix that slip (if it was a slip) before releasing it to the media.

                      There is nothing to fix. Harper is clearly talking about the UMD.


                      Harper is not talking about United Macedonians. Even if he was referring to United Macedonians in his intro (which he clearly is not), his speech does not outline the work of any particular organisation. The content of his speech refers to Canadian-Macedonian relations and acknowledging the Macedonian community in general. So there is nothing in Harper's speech for the UMD "to ride on".
                      ----------

                      Comment

                      • iskra
                        Junior Member
                        • Jun 2010
                        • 59

                        #26
                        When you call yourself UNITED Macedonian Diaspora, you need to consult. Instead they ignored the people (UM) who won Harper over for what they were awarding him. Trying to cash in to fill up your hall by deliberately encouraging people to think that someone is going to be there when you know they are not, especially in this context is low.


                        I am glad you now admit, after being exposed, that Harper DID talk about an organisation after all and no it is not clear that he means UMD and not UM. Especially as UM has developed a close working relationship with Harper in Toronto.

                        Comment

                        • XRVOL
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2009
                          • 84

                          #27
                          Exposed?

                          A mention of a name and an award in an intro is barely talking about an organisation. The content of his speech mentions no organisation. It is not about an organisation. Saying "United Macedonian" and "Goce Delcev award" once in an intro is not talking about an organisation.

                          And, yes, it is clear he is talking about UMD when he says "United Macedonian" in his intro.

                          Take the goggles off, mate.

                          How did they ignore United Macedonians? What should they have done? United Macedonians also has "united" in their name. Should they coordinate all their efforts with every other single Macedonian organisation in Canada? Your logic is flawed.
                          Last edited by XRVOL; 06-26-2010, 01:05 AM.

                          Comment

                          • iskra
                            Junior Member
                            • Jun 2010
                            • 59

                            #28
                            This is the last time. Yes you were exposed. You cannot limit the "content" of a speech to what just suits you! Everything he said is the content of the speech!

                            No you don't have to coordinate every single action if your name has "united" in it. But if you call yourself "united" and you go to Toronto with the word "united" in your name to give an award to the prime minister of Canada for doing something that the other Macedonian organisations from Toronto, convinced him to do, at the very least, you should try to coordinate and consult with them about it!

                            UMD did not do this and basically instead ignored the views of these organisations. That is not likely to breed "unity". Then to top it off the UMD encouraged people in Toronto to think that Harper was going to be at their dinner even though they knew he wasn't, to try to cash in even more.
                            Last edited by iskra; 06-26-2010, 02:15 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Volk
                              Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 894

                              #29
                              Well done to the Canadian PM for his recognition of our rightful Macedonian name and all Macedonians involved in lobbying all relevant parties.

                              Further comments for me are counter productive and a waste of time
                              Makedonija vo Srce

                              Comment

                              • Vangelovski
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 8531

                                #30
                                Originally posted by XRVOL View Post
                                Exposed?

                                The content of his speech mentions no organisation. It is not about an organisation. Saying "United Macedonian" and "Goce Delcev award" once in an intro is not talking about an organisation.

                                And, yes, it is clear he is talking about UMD when he says "United Macedonian" in his intro.
                                XRVOL,

                                Which is it? He is or he isn't talking about an organisation? Are you on the same acid trip as Prolet?
                                If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sins and restore their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14

                                The Revolution was in the minds and hearts of the people; a change in their religious sentiments, of their duties and obligations...This radical change in the principles, opinions, sentiments, and affections of the people was the real American Revolution. John Adams

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